114. The Death of Romantic Love (Part 2 of Love, Romance, and Polarity)

Yep, that's right, we are talking about the death of romantic love in all long term marriages. We have a bold conversation about what couples are led to believe are love, and finish it off with a focus that will leave you a little more hopeful than what the title suggests.

Topics:

➡️ The Fairy Tale we are sold about love
➡️ What your spouse means when they no longer "feel it"
➡️ Why Romantic Love is so intoxicating
➡️ What happens when you aren't able to accept the reality of love.

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FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Eric MacDougall
So today, we're talking about romantic love. Right. And really, we're going to dive deeper into this idea of what that means what romance is, but this is really the second part to our three part series. So if you haven't heard last week's episode, it was all about love and practicing love and what that means to us. Today, we're going to talk a little bit more about this idea of romance and romantic love and the beliefs that we have around them and what it leads to in a relationship. And then next week on next week, next week's podcast we're going to talk more about polarity right specifically that idea of masculine feminine core in essence and how it plays with each other and how you can use it to benefit not only yourself as an individual but also your relationships. Absolutely. Yeah. So I wanted to start by saying you know, really framing this idea of romantic love. So I teach a lot about this idea of these three, or sorry, these four stages of desire, right sexual desire. And the first one really starts with lust which is a very young finances feeling of you know, just this animalistic instinct of attraction. The second driver is romantic love and the third one being attachment the fourth one being you know, the drive to discover and grow the solid sense of self and a lot of people when I talk about romantic love this is like what is sold to us right in fairy tales.

Kate MacDougall
Oh yes but we watch these movies with Prince Charming even like watching the the heroes and all of the, you know, adult movies still today. A lot of them are still men and strong and you know, they come in they sweep you off your feet, and there's so romantical with all the romantical gestures.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah, and a lot of that those ideals are really based around this feeling that comes up in not only women because I think typically women are marketed to in that sense, but men as well, right? men feel that same way. So every human experiences these feelings around romantic love, right. And so what society is selling to us is that feeling when you first meet somebody, there's a sense of infatuation, right, you become totally enamored with another human being, you want to get to know them, the butterflies are coming out,

Kate MacDougall
you're thinking about them all the time. That's the first person you want to talk to, when you wake up in the morning, the last person you want to talk to when you go to bed, it's those long phone calls in the middle of the night.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah, and this is really based around this idea of familiarity, right? So a lot of romantic love is based in this feeling that comes up for you, again, that you might have lost as a kid, right, that you typically got from your parents the best part of your relationship, your parents the love, that just freely giving love and attention. And what that embodied within you. Well, now you're essentially finding it again, in another human being right? And this is where you hear a lot of people say like, Oh, it feels like we've known each other forever. Oh, this feels so right. It's the idea of soulmate and all that stuff.

Kate MacDougall
Yeah. And of course it does, right? Because it's, you have known this feeling forever. Exactly. You, you know, have been in this situation before. So it is very familiar to you to be in a situation where you fall, when where you're falling in love with somebody where you're completely infatuated by them.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah, where you are, you know, the object of their attention, you get to give your attention directly to them. You're discovering again, it's a very similar feeling that you had when you were a kid growing up with parents who are giving you this love as a child.

Kate MacDougall
Yeah, and remembering myself as a mom of a younger child, like just the infatuation I had with them and bringing them everywhere and wanting everyone to hold them and touch them. And look how cute he is. And he's so sweet. And they can do no wrong because they're just oh, they're just so sweet. They're growing and, and even now growing up, the kids are still very young, and you know, all our attention, every activity, we plan, it's around them. And it's the exact same thing that we do in the beginning of a relationship. We're just recreating that relationship that we had early on with our parents.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah. And that's why it brings so many feelings up within us, right? All these feelings, these butterflies, this familiarity, this excitement, this passion, right? All of that comes out because it's the, it's the next stage of evolution towards that love, right. And that's what we call romantic love. And like, any sort of love, right around this idea of same way that your parents, you know, you love them, you love the best parts of them, but in a way, they kind of disappointed you. Right, and there was a lot of things missing in your relationship with your parents. Well, you ended up creating that same thing with your romantic partner. And this is the phase that we talk about in terms of disillusionment, right. So it starts out with infatuation. You get excited, you get to know this person. It's all butterflies, it's all excitement. And then over time, a lot of the things that you loved about your partner that were the best parts of them become the most irritating parts of them. Right, right. So their confidence becomes cockiness, right? They're hard charging on a bashing, like go getter attitude, yeah, becomes stubbornness, right? And because as you get closer to this person, as you continue to reveal yourself, and those initial infatuation feelings go away, what you're left with is the normal human experience of relating to another. And then you start to notice some of their faults. And over time, because you're living with these faults, because you're connected to them in a deeper way than probably you've ever been connected with anybody else. Right? Especially as you grow into a long term relationship. A lot of their behaviors start to irritate you, right? Because they become a very real part of your ecosystem. And that's when you move from this infatuation phase to this disillusionment phase. Yeah, and

Kate MacDougall
I think I'll also you start growing, even in the most perfect relationship, right? You can feel some sort of resentment towards your partner. Even if everything's going well and whatever, like you do have a part of yourself that you're always giving to another person, right? So you can feel a little bit like irritated towards the other person sometimes because you're not getting your way or just as you would as a child, right. Like, you won't let me go to the party like as your when you were a teenager and your dad's telling me you can't go to the party. And then you're asking your husband like let's go to, you know, so and so's party and your husband's like, I don't really feel like socializing today. You get that same feeling of like, oh, like, you're not supposed to Just saying and he's being honest, he just doesn't want to go socialize is not stopping you from going, but you still get this feeling maybe of like, I'm so disappointed. And because you get this feeling, it's these things that used to be adorable, can easily trigger you, you know, like things that that would normally not trigger you about your partner, because you have these constant disappointments are angry, like you feel angry about some things towards your partner like, these things are just more easily triggered.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah. And really, if you look at it, you know, if you I want listener, you listening, like visualize this in the sense that in the beginning of a relationship, it's really two partners that are moving towards each other. Right. So think about it in terms of like magnetism, and they're coming together. And through the revealing, through opening up, they're getting closer and closer and closer and closer. And eventually, the you and me becomes us, right. And that's when we again, like some of us decide to get engaged, get married, build a life together. And so what happens is, you have this sense of individuality, which is so exciting, which is so attractive, because you're looking at another that's what attracts you is the other, right. And as you move closer and closer together, you go from being you and me to us. And then within the US, you tend to lose yourself. And that's what you're talking about, in a sense of, you know, you're so close to it now. Yeah, that it feels like because your partner doesn't want something or wants something, etc, that somehow you need to want that to exactly. And now the US becomes really a confusing space for you to be in. Because it's either we do everything together, or we somehow are apart, we're moving away from each other. And so much of what happens in that space of the US is there's too much closeness, this is when you get to a place where women are men too, but it's this idea of like I need space, it really is about you losing yourself. And because now you're in that space where the infatuation has turned to this disillusionment, you're no longer being propped up by that passion. And so now because that passion is kind of waning, because you've fallen into this attachment phase, the business of marriage, etc. Now, these things that irritate you are very present. Yeah. And they're essentially creeping in and kind of taking over your life

Kate MacDougall
much easier to see. Whereas before, when you're still in the infatuation phase, it's, it's a lot. Not that you don't see them, you kind of overlooked forgiving. It's like, oh, you know what, whatever. He's cute. Oh, he doesn't do a chat. And like, oh, one hour or like, kind of brush it off, brush it off, brush it off. But after you've brushed it off a million times, and then you're moving closer to the disillusionment phase, you're like, no longer brushing this off. This is pissing me off, like stop.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah, and this happens in all kinds of ways, right? From the, the way that we handle the household stuff to the type of sex that we're having to the way we communicate to our sense of adventure. A lot of these things when you get to this place where, you know, the passion starts to wane, that romantic love starts to go away, which naturally it does, right? That's part of our biological clock, is that the romantic love goes away. So we can move into attachment, create families, right? All that stuff and continue to grow the society. Well, now, you're at this place where everything irritates you. And when partners have this sense that romantic love should be totally present. This is like the lie, right? This is why the death of romantic love needs to be something that people are aware of, is that as individuals, when we realize, oh, I don't have that feeling anymore, we start to think something's wrong. And either there's a problem with me, or there's a problem with you. Or this is not meant to be. And inevitably, when you start going down that road, you start to say, Well, I'm just looking for those feelings, those butterflies and if as long as they don't come back, it means we're not meant to be together, right? And we essentially start to think about, okay, well, because I don't have that romantic love those butterflies that I had in the beginning. Well, then now I need to end our relationship and go find that somewhere else.

Kate MacDougall
Exactly. And you will find it somewhere else. Of course, you will get to the same place with that other person. Exactly. So it is inevitable that romantic love the romantic part of love dies. Yeah, inevitable.

Eric MacDougall
And this is the this is the scary part that a lot of people don't recognize. And this is something you and I recognize

Kate MacDougall
people right now they're like, No way. I'm my husband, super romantic buys me flowers all the time.

Eric MacDougall
And maybe that's true. Yeah, maybe somebody is actively bringing romance to the relationship constantly. And that's important, right? I mean, we can talk about the practice of bringing romanticism back, we can talk about the practice of actively, right, sweeping your partner off their feet, bring novelty etc. In some ways, you can essentially recreate a similar feeling, but it's never going to be like it wasn't the beginning. Right? Because that idea of like, Oh, it's a first time as a human experience. It's very hard to experience the same feelings. Yeah, like the first

Kate MacDougall
time your husband or your husband, or your partner says I love you. You're never Gotta get that first time again, it's never gonna be like that you're never gonna get that like, oh gosh, feeling like the first time you bought you flowers, the first time you went to the movies together, like you're never going to get that first time feeling. And you might be able to if you start doing novel things together, if you push yourself to do adventures together and do different things, get out of your normal day to day routine. But that takes conscious effort. And going back to last week, last week's episode, it takes conscious practice, to love your partner in the right way and to open yourself up to speak to them right and to open yourself.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah, because this is what's happening to a lot of people is we are closed off to this idea that love should be something that we open ourselves up to we practice we receive. And then so we get to a place where we're like, Well, if I can't feel it too bad, like, I guess it's over. But it's like you're not actually seeking it out. If you're not actively practicing love and opening yourself up to it. You have just started to create this fantasy, which again, sadly, is sold to us by the media, by culture by I literally see stuff on Instagram. Yeah, hashtag relationship goals. Yeah, like, Oh, if you're not totally infatuated with your partner every day, you're with the wrong person. Like that's not true, no and impossible. And it's a very toxic belief that people take away. And that essentially not only ruin relationships, ruin marriages, ruin families because of it, right? Because they're like, Well, I guess, I guess the butterflies are gone, and I can't get them back anymore. So this means that our relationships at its end.

Kate MacDougall
Yeah. And usually at that point, it's your fault. Because I've tried everything, I buy you flowers, I planned dates for us, I do all these things, and you're not doing anything back. So I'm

Eric MacDougall
right. And even more than that, this idea that like I shouldn't have to work at it. Like this is the other idea, right? Where it's like, if I shouldn't be so hard, right? If I have to work at creating love, if I have to work at getting that feeling well, then it's not real. Yeah. And this is what we talked about in last week's episode that, you know, that is a practice to continue to love deeply to continue to make the active choice to show up. Right. And so, you know, I think a lot of people are listening this episode, and they're probably like, Okay, that's great. Like, what a downer, right? To hear like romantic love. Like, this sucks. Like, what are you saying that there's an end to the romance. And again, we don't necessarily want you to take away this idea that like romance is dead in our relationship, we are constantly practicing new ways to be romantic, we just understand that for us, we've transformed that idea into practicing loving each other,

Kate MacDougall
right, and instead of being frustrated about it, and instead of being angry at each other, because those butterflies aren't there, or Eric's not wooing me or sweeping me off my feet, because there was a point in our relationship where, and I remember talking to our therapist, and saying, like, I just want him to sweep me off my feet. And you used to, you used to sweep me off my feet all the time. And it's not to say that you never absolutely never do, but it's just not that same feeling. Right? That's

Eric MacDougall
what he's gonna say like, it's not like, I might be doing those same actions today. But you were also adding to that entire experience, because you were experiencing it for the first time, we were in a different place in our relationship, etc. And I think that is the really important thing to understand if you're taking any away from anything away from this episode, is that you both were able to create this feeling of romantic love, right? By being engaged by moving towards the courting phase by doing all that stuff. And once you accept that the reality of long term relationships is that that feeling of all these firsts will inevitably change and transform over time, then you get to open yourself up to something that is way, way more fulfilling, which is depth, right, which is to deeply no one other person. And this is what people don't talk about. Because the romantic love phase is exciting. And this is why it dies is because as you move closer to another person, it gets to a place where now nobody has ever known you that deeply. And to have somebody come in and know you that that deeply is actually quite threatening. Like can

Kate MacDougall
be very intimidating. Yeah. And sometimes frustrating. Like, I know, sometimes we'll be sitting there and you're like, how you doing Kate? And I'm like, oh, that's alright. It's alright. You're no but seriously, like, you're not doing well, like talk to me. And I'm like, go, like, Why? Why do you know me so well. So well, like I'm trying to hide it as best as I can. And now I have to talk about it.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah. And you don't have to talk about it. Right. You could say it's not going well, Eric, but I don't want to talk about it right now. And then we have a type relationship where that can happen. Right. But the big challenge is this idea that a lot of people when they get to this place where they're being seen for the first time, right that that is intimacy and a lot of people we do not want that. Right it So we have this idea like, oh, yeah, I want a healthy relationship, I want to keep growing, but only on my terms and only on a way that is not about revealing myself.

Kate MacDougall
Yeah. And because of that societal expectation to us when not to us, me and you, but society in general, when we say as a relationship, I want to keep growing. I've seen so many relationship coaches, groups where you know, men and women are and, and their biggest answer to marriage is, you know, that or maybe on the rocks or losing some romance, it's date, date, your spouse, or it's, you know, planned things together do novel things is, yes, absolutely, all of that is going to help your marriage thrive. But it's not going to help you love your spouse deeper, what's going to help you love your spouse deeper, is to get to that place of deep, deep knowing and deep intimacy, and allowing your partner to really see you, and to deeply be able to see your partner.

Eric MacDougall
So we really want this episode, to maybe instill a bit of hope in you, in the sense that it is totally normal. Absolutely. For those feelings of like, I'm just not feeling it anymore, to naturally Wayne. And that actually can create an opportunity for this awakening to the next evolution of your marriage. Right, which is deep knowing deep connection, not only knowing yourself on a deeper level, right, using the container of the marriage, to challenge yourself to grow, to challenge yourself to evolve to expand, but also to try to understand your partner more deeply. Right? How can I and this is what we talked about in terms of differentiation. This is why it's such an important practice in the mastermind that we're in for men is that, how can I be more of myself, right to continue to reveal myself to continue to open up to myself and get as close as I possibly can to Kate. And a lot of times, like, again, we're having conversations that are heavy, that are hard, and it's just me opening up and you just holding space, not saying, oh, Eric, I'm exhausted that you're feeling this way. And I'm trying to make you feel happy all the time. And it's like, no, Eric, I can hold space for you to be sad. And for you to struggle.

Kate MacDougall
Yeah. And I think our next episode that we're going to be putting out next week on polarity is going to give you a lot more insight on how to do this how to, you know, truly show up as your authentic self in the relationship and take that relationship to the next level. Yeah. So when you feel like that romance is dying off. Yeah, bring in some novelty, make sure you spend some time together and, you know, revisit, you know, how much quality time are we spending together, but also taken as a sign that like, how we're getting to that next step? Yeah, we're we're at that next step. And we're reading to know each other in a much deeper, more intimate way.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah. And that is the practice of love that is a practice of polarity is to get out of this idea of how things should be, and instead transform it to the way that hey, how can we create the exact relationship that we want? That really lights us up on our own terms, right. And that's a big part of what you and I have done, Kate is our marriage, our life, our relationship looks very different than it would compare it to like a romantic comedy. Right? There's a lot of fun. There's a lot of playfulness. But also there's a lot of challenging each other to grow. I

Kate MacDougall
don't think our if you were to film our life, I think some parts would be entertaining other parts would be like, yawn. Oh, they're out there talking. Having another deep conversation about things that mean nothing to the outside world. But to us. It means getting to know each other so deeply. That's right,

Eric MacDougall
yeah. And finding that feeling that connection again, to feel not only securely attached, but then also use polarity to bring that fire bring those sparks bring the excitement again, you know, not only outside of the bedroom, but also inside the bedroom, which is we're going to talk about next week.