Having Sex, Making Love, and F*cking your Partner

 

We are very excited to share this episode! We dive deeper into our thoughts on sexual intimacy!

Please make sure sensitive ears are not listening in!

We chat about:
➡️ The limiting ideas we have of Sex
➡️ Why some people avoid making love
➡️ How F*cking is great for a relationship, when done right
➡️ How prioritizing your own needs is healthy!

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:

Eric MacDougall
Hey, hey, hey, oh, hello. Hey, I'm excited for this episode's topic. 

Kate MacDougall
Oh, my gosh, we've been wanting to talk about this for a while. Yeah. And it's been something that's been kind of brought up often in our marriage lately, just the difference between those three types of intimacy.

Eric MacDougall
I think it's been a big focus for us, right, we've been focusing on this and kind of differentiating between these things. But I also think it's something that is really valuable for couples to know, especially younger couples, right? Couples with young kids, couples who have been in their marriage and started to really create this secure attachment to differentiate these three things, because we want to make sure that we're able to tap into all of them. And today we're going to talk about the difference, and what needs to happen in order for us to tap into all of them.

Kate MacDougall
Right. And I think for me with my coaching and what I'm going through, and what we're looking at right now, is this is a topic that's very sensitive for a lot of women, a lot of women don't think they're allowed to be fucked. A lot of women are shy to ask their husband to fuck them. They're tired of making love. They're not enjoying their sex life. And they're not understanding why. And it's probably just a small shift in mindset, like, have that discussion with your husband, ask him for a different kind of sex. So I know this was kind of a taboo subject with a lot of women. It's not something we tend to talk about. It's not something we tend to think about. But I mean, I'm generalizing. I'm sure there's men who also think that way. But I know for me in our coaching, that was a big aha moment for a lot of women in my group was like, Oh, wow. Like, that's the problem with my sex life right now. That's what I'm looking for. Yes, this is where I need to change.

Eric MacDougall
Absolutely. And I think, I mean, there's a lot of things here, I don't want to get too deep into this in the beginning. But, you know, not only do we teach women to be a certain way, and connect a certain way to their own sexuality. We also project ideas around what that means about the woman who enjoys right having sex enjoys, fucking enjoys to be fucked. And then even deeper than that, you know, the male sexual ego can often be intimidated by a powerful sexual woman. And so a lot of times in long term relationships, the woman almost needs to hide that part of herself, right, in order to make sure that her husband does not feel intimidated sexually. Right, right. And so I don't want to get too deep into the psychology of it all. Really, today, all we're gonna do in this episode is talking about the differences. This is stuff that we talk a lot about with the men in the mastermind, right? How can we bring this energy? How can we wake up that part of our wives? And it's a it's a process, right? Kate, you've been through this. I've been through this with my own ideals around sexual shame and religion, etc. And what it meant for me to step into my aggression, step into my power, and allow myself to bring that energy to our sexual relationship.

Kate MacDougall
Exactly. So let's get into those differences. According to us, McDougall's

Eric MacDougall
Right, yeah. So why don't we start with this idea of having sex? And really what that means to you?

Kate MacDougall
To me? Yeah. Well, to me having sex is very duty. Like, my definition of having sex is I'm doing it because we haven't done in a while. So we'll have sex. Let's have sex. It's like a one and done. penetration. That's all. That's my definition.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah. And it certainly, you know, in our marriage, we talk about having sex in terms of the act. Yeah. Right. It's, it's, you know, there's not an attachment of emotions, what it means it's the act and in some relationships, including ours, sometimes that can serve a purpose. Right? Right. It can be a reminder of, you know, connecting, it can stimulate a lot of emotional connection, right? Sometimes if we're not feeling connected, we talk about having sex in order to wake up and stimulate connection between us, right? So going into it, we understand it's an act, but then through that act, we decide to show up and create something exact not knowing exactly where it's gonna go. So that's typically when we talk about, you know, let's have sex or we haven't had sex in a while or, you know, let's prioritize sex. In our relationship, we're talking about the act of sex, right? And how we can utilize that almost as a springboard

Kate MacDougall
exact connection. And then when we're having sex when we start, you know, sometimes I'm not super into it, like, it's not like rape. I'm like, obviously consenting, like, Yes, I'll have sex with you, but energetically, energetically, I'm like, I'll do it. But no, whatever. But oftentimes, what happens is, during that first part when we're having sex, and all of a sudden, I'm like, this sex is turning more into making love or this sex is turning more into fucking. Yeah. And for me, that's the difference. You know, it's, it starts out as sex. It starts out as this like, yeah, it's good. You know, penis in vagina, it's happening. Yep. But to me, the two others have a much more meaningful definition for me. I guess.

Eric MacDougall
That's right. And I think you know, there is some pleasure there, there is some stimulation. And we talk a lot about in our relationship, you know, Kate, you're responsible for your own sexuality, your own pleasure, and I'm responsible for my own sexuality, Mount pleasure, right? And so there's no expectations of, you know, if you're not enjoying sex, you have a boundary we have about you're in a relationship where you would speak up, right? And say, kind of, like, hey, this isn't really working for me, we need to try something different. Or we can do this. Or maybe, hey, you know what, glad we tried it. I'm just not open to it. Yeah. So instead, we're going to do this, we're going to make it Yeah.

Kate MacDougall
And honestly, it's still a work in progress for me to be like in the middle of sex and say, Hey, not feeling it anymore. So let's just stop it here. Like, I still have that mentality that like, in order to have sex, for sex to finish, one of us has to orgasm. Right. And, you know, we're moving into that in our relationship. That's currently what we're going to be working on in our relationship is, sex doesn't always have to lead to orgasm. Even though that's a deep seated belief in me, to me having sex means penis and vagina until orgasm.

Eric MacDougall
Certainly, as well. The male orgasm, the male, happens a lot. Whereas, you know, in situations, you can orgasm a few times, and that doesn't stimulate the end of it. But when the male you know, typically, when men orgasm, that kind of is the finality for some couples, right? It's like, oh, now I'm done. So I'm good. And sometimes, you know, the woman can be left alone. And, you know, hey, I'm just kind of still into it. I would like to continue, I would like to continue some sexual energy. But because the male has ejaculated, it's like, Alright, cool. Let's just clean up and go to bed.

Kate MacDougall
Right? And what do you say having sex means the same thing to you?

Eric MacDougall
Yeah, for me, it's definitely the act I think a lot about and I do want to revisit what you said, in terms of, you know, when you're in that moment, and you're not feeling it, and you speak up. That happens after you have, you know, really tried to open yourself up to it. Yeah, right. This is not just like, I'm closed off, let's try it is not working for me, it's over. And I've kind of like, you know, I did my due diligence by trying it. But no, for us in our marriage, you know, we do our due diligence to try to get into it and to try to uphold that collaborative line of

Kate MacDougall
laying there like a starfish. Exactly. And you're trying, you're like, Okay, I'm

Eric MacDougall
try Kate, like, get into your mind, you know, stop thinking about the grocery list or whatever. And then after a while, you know, if you really just can't get into it, in order for us to keep our alliance strong, and to be honest, and to make sure that we're connected. You know, we've made the commitment to speak up, right and say, Hey, this is not working for me.

Kate MacDougall
And that was super healthy for a relationship because at one point in our relationship, I was having sex purely out of obligation. I was actually weren't enjoying, I was not enjoying the sex. I was like, Ah, just get off of me like, thank you. Okay, I'll thank God he came. Okay. Thanks for that by, like, it was just, that was sex. To me. It was an obligation. It wasn't connecting. It was this. I'm a wife. This is what I have to do.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah. And a lot of women are told that right, I grew up to believe that they now are in marriages that reaffirm that idea of like sexist for the man in order to appease him that make sure he's not pissed off. I gotta give him his cookie. Right. And that does not create a healthy

Kate MacDougall
and you're growing up. You know, watching porn, seeing other couples, the discussions I was having with my girlfriends, even in high school, like was very much like, let's learn to please the men. And then yeah, high school. It's showing your true colors. And then also, like, even growing up, I was surrounded with friends who were having sex with their husbands out of obligation. It was just like, oh, he gets on top of me. I was like, Yeah, I've had I've had friends who'd never orgasms in their life before and this was normal to us. It was just like, it happens. It is the way it is. Right? It's supposed to be like that you've been in a relationship for like five years. Yeah. eventually gonna stop orgasm or even

Eric MacDougall
you know, internalizing because we talked about the inner critic last episode, internalizing that and saying, Oh, I better not bring this up because that means there's something wrong with me. If I can't orgasm, clearly, there's a problem with me, etc, etc, which is absolutely not true. Right? We have different ideas. We have different pleasures, we have different areas of stimulation, and And because you know, sex has really been driven by men in our history, we have this idea that all men and women think the same when it comes to sex, right? This idea of proactive and you know, just constantly driving and accelerating towards sex, which is absolutely not true. We don't all have that desire, we don't all have the same stimulation. And this is why it's really important to understand the nuances of a healthy sexual relationship. Exactly.

Kate MacDougall
So would you say, would you add anything to what sex means to you? As a man?

Eric MacDougall
No, I think that, you know, when we talk about having sex, we talk about the act, and using that as a springboard to see where we wanted to go. So when I say, you know, having sex, it includes all kinds of different things. But essentially, it's sexual connection physically, between you and I, in this case, okay, so

Kate MacDougall
even for you like, being close in proximity, laying together naked, for example, that would be considered sex to you. 

Eric MacDougall
That would be Yeah, that would be part of the kind of play field of having sex.

Kate MacDougall
And I would love and I'm getting, they're getting to that place where sex means that to me, but to me, I still have some growing to do when, when it comes to sex, I still see sex as penis and vagina penetration. And, and that's, I mean, I think me and 90% of the population think that way, right? And it takes practice, it takes a whole mind shift, to shift that mindset to think sex can be just me and my husband laying together not even naked, just laying together holding each other tight kissing. Like it can be just very physical, but without necessarily having any genitals. involved.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah, that's right. So huge umbrella. We're talking about having sex, right. And so as we move towards making love, I think for a lot of couples, especially once we get married, this is kind of the idea that we have of a sexual relationship. Right, right. Really sensual. The slow music in the background. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And, you know, to be honest, a lot of men, especially, you know, growing up in my generation, maybe a little bit older than me, I have this idea of, oh, like, I'm gonna make it super romantic and super Central.

Kate MacDougall
And then my wife will love it, right? Because a lot of people have this conception that women love to make love. And it's yes, of course, women love to make love. I'm not saying like, no women loves to make love. Like some men love to make love. Like some people. That's what that is the way they want to have sex is making love.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah. And I think at some point, you know, everybody likes to have that more sensual, connecting emotional experience. Yeah. And this is kind of, you know, making love for me falls under the umbrella of having sex. To us, we just differentiate it, you know, we talk about making love, it's much more sensual and slow and connecting.

Kate MacDougall
Yeah. And I would say, you know, for me, making love is like, there's more for play, there's more play up to it. Like we're flirting all day, we're like, kind of kissing and holding each other. We're, you know, once we get into the act, there's a lot more foreplay, there's slower, you know, we're, we're starting slower than we would, if we were fucking Yeah,

Eric MacDougall
and I would say that, in most cases, making love is much more intimate than, you know, fucking. And this is where I kind of differentiated is, you know, for me, when I'm thinking about making love, there's something inside me that wants to connect to you. Right? It's that I want that secure attachment, I want to feel close to you emotionally,

Kate MacDougall
right is gonna say the same thing. It's almost like a way to hold you closer to me, right. And oftentimes, when you're making love, you are much closer to a person, you're breathing into that person's face, you're like, sweat on sweat, like you're touching each other very, very closely. And so that's why it is a much more intimate experience. Because, you know, if you have insecurities about your body, or insecurities about your smells, or whatever, like that can be a little bit intimidating to be that close to a person. And for me, making love sometimes lasts a little longer, too, because, you know, it's much more intimate. It's less, you know, rubbing and tugging, and

Eric MacDougall
absolutely most about body parts. And because

Kate MacDougall
you're not focusing so much on the pleasure, you're focusing on the connection, you're not necessarily you know, thinking about what's happening down in your genitals, you're just thinking of like, oh, wow, like, yes, it feels good in my genitals, but it also feels really, really good in my mind and my heart.

Eric MacDougall
That's right. Yeah. And I think this is where we get into, you know, when we're kissing and when we're making love, very close, typically face to face, looking at each other's eyes. Exactly what we're orgasm. When we orgasm, its eyes open orgasm, right? Like all these kind of nuanced ways that we're having sex in this case, right? Making love in a way that is prioritizing that emotional closeness right? that intimate bond.

Kate MacDougall
Yeah. And for me, I would say a lot of times, I don't go into sex thinking like, Oh, I really want to make love tonight. For me, it's very, it is a very intimidating, kind of like vulnerable thing to get into. I mean, we've been having sex for almost 20 years. And it's still very vulnerable, I still feel very vulnerable. My body has changed during those 20 years, I've gone from great body to a little bit more, you know, little meat, more meat on the bones to very skinny to, you know, very muscular, you know, your body changes. I had babies, I was pregnant at one point, we were excited. Yeah, big stomach. And I think

Eric MacDougall
even more important, like, the thoughts about your body are changing. Yeah, right. And that's what we say like the mind is the best tool for having a healthy sexual relationship. So if while you're having sex, you're thinking negative things about yourself about your body that will impact your ability to create pleasure.

Kate MacDougall
Exactly. So for me, I go into it. When we're making love, I go into it to have sex. And usually as I'm having sex, I can feel your closeness to me, all of a sudden, I'm like, Oh, my gosh, this closeness to Eric, like, I miss this. And then I feel that need and that urge to, like, get closer to you. But I wouldn't say I often go into it thinking, well, I want to make love tonight. Like it's like, I go into it thinking I'm gonna have sex, and that sex turns into something more close and intimate. I'll slow it down. You know, like, if you're going a little faster, I'll like, pull back a little bit and, you know, ask you to slow down or, or kiss you more slowly and kind of like, I think you feed off of that energy and you start feeling like, Okay, I think she's making love tonight. Right? And vice versa.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah. And I think one thing that you touched on this really important is that out of the three, when we talk about making love is the most vulnerable, right? Plenty of people are having sex in their lives and do not feel emotionally connected, like plenty of long term relationships, or having sex do not have emotional connection. And so making love and that type of sexual connection serves to you know, open yourself up because it's so vulnerable. Now, intimacy, you guys know, when we talk about intimacy, we talked about this on podcast before, it's about revealing yourself. And there's no way to be more revealing than when you are naked face to face with your partner, really looking at them in the eyes, while you know the man is penetrating the woman. And that is the most vulnerable. So that's why people avoid it often, right? That's why we like to stay in the little box of the sex we're having, where it's just, hey, let's just do this. Let's get over quickly, let's penetrate because I don't like being in this vulnerable space. Yeah,

Kate MacDougall
exactly. And I was gonna say, back when we were talking about the sex, I forgot to mention it. But to me, sex is very like, ABC, you know, and we have our positions, we know they work. If I go in this position, and I do this exact thing. I know I'm going to orgasm, I'm going if I do this to Eric, he's going to orgasm, like in fact, a very, like I have a recipe for success when it comes to sex. But making love it's a little more unpredictable, you're going slow, sometimes you fall out of sync, sometimes it's it's you know, it's it's going much slower. And you're you have to stay out of your head, you have to be able to move into your body. So it is a very different experience.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah, that's right. And as we move on to, you know, this idea of fucking and there's a reason we call it that, because, you know, for us, when we talk about fucking, it's that animalistic. There's certainly some aggression to it. It's not about the emotional connection, but instead is about the physical act and the sense of wanting of desire. And for a lot of people, this is a fantasy, you know, that they've repressed not to say, like, necessarily a fantasy, but certainly a desire that they repress. Because they're not sure that they have the capability or trust themselves to be in that space, right as men. We don't want to hurt our partners. As women, we don't always want to intimidate our partners. And so what I often tell couples when I work with that when we talk about this is that it's next to impossible to fuck your partner. If you have them on a pedestal right? Right if you like love this person, and like all it's my queen, I need to take care of her. Well, it's very hard to fuck somebody aggressively and bring that energy. If you think that you need to take care of them all the time.

Kate MacDougall
Right and something that was suggested to me in the group and my in my coaching group was have an archetype have it, like a person you can tap into, give her a name. And that person is not a mom. She's not a teacher. She's not a everything like that would usually make love to her husband. She's not a person who also teaches kids during the day, like all she is is a sex goddess just loves to see oh, yeah, she loves the DEA. And she's not afraid of it. And she's like, aggressive with it. And she's like, I'm going to take this on and I'm going I'm going to do what I want with it. Yeah. And

Eric MacDougall
I think it's really important you said there because that alter ego a lot of times when we talk about fucking people think about the woman being fucked right by the man. And that's kind of the the stereotypical idea that we have the aggressive man, the woman being ravished. But it's also possible for the women, the woman in this case to fuck the man. Oh, yeah. And this is where you know exactly you're talking about that alter ego is like I, I own you and, and really bring this energy to you sexually. And in that sense of like, I control your pleasure.

Kate MacDougall
Yeah. And I know, for me, when I go into like, fucking mode, I really have to get out of my head, I have to think of you not as Eric, I have to think of us like, tool for pleasure. And really, I mean, it sounds really bad, like objectifying you. But if I think of you as Eric, I want to have, I want to make love with you, I want to I want to have sex with you. But I'm not sure I want to fuck you. Because we've been together forever. Like, it's like, same behaviors. 20 years, like I get it, it gets I can get redundant. But like, sometimes if I imagine you as like, another Eric, you know, like, then I'm no problem I'll take, I'll take advantage of you, I'll get on top of you and hurt you. If I have to

Eric MacDougall
write, what you're saying is really important. Because this is where you know, in order to be able to fuck our partner, we have to be emotionally secure enough to understand that at any point, we can stop it, right. So in this case, like when we're doing and if you feel hurt, you can stop the act and say, hey, whoa, whoa, this is too much now, right? Or vice versa, if I'm not enjoying it, I'm like, Hey, like, the aggression is getting a bit much, but I'm actually not enjoying it. Like, I don't enjoy being slapped in the mouth. Stop swearing at

Kate MacDougall
me. Right, exactly. Please don't call me be,

Eric MacDougall
like, whatever works for you and your situation. But what's really important is that you need to feel secure enough to allow yourself to enter that space. But then you also need to be able to suspend belief in order to connect to that part of yourself. And this is exactly what you're talking about where it's, you know, when you see me when I see you as like, the mother of our kids, and I'm making like, I ain't fucking you know, right now, when I see you as like, just this, you know, cocky, loving horror, who's like, I just want that D like, I love that. Well, then now I'm able to step into that. But I have to suspend my belief about the other parts of you, that's weak K, exactly. Like that takes care of me when I'm sick that, you know, deeply loves me, that is my amazing partner. And instead, in this case, it's just like you are a vessel for this sexual connection. Right? And not every person is able to do that. Because then they start to have beliefs about themselves. Exactly.

Kate MacDougall
I was just about to say that it's hard to do that it's hard to objectify your partner, because we're told so often, that is so disrespectful, do not do that. Like I'm sorry, the amount of times that I've heard women and my women groups say, I want to be fucked. Like, I am so sick and tired of my husband having sex with me, or making love to me, like, hey, I want it a little bit. And it's crazy, because when I heard that, I was like, Oh, my god, me too. Yeah. Like, I think Eric and I have been making love for too long. I need to talk to them about this. And I remember having that conversation with you. And you are very open to that you're like, Yeah, okay.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah. Well, it's also an area of growth for me, right? In a sense, where it's like, okay, well, how do I tap into my aggression, which is not an area of my life that I am used to tapping into, I was always told to be a nice guy, to not, you know, not to be mean, and bla, bla bla, and not to be aggressive, exact, but it's like, how do I create a space where I can be aggressive with this woman that I deeply love in a in a space where she can be open and honest with me about what she's experiencing?

Kate MacDougall
Exactly. And I think that in a relationship, you can't necessarily go from, like 20 years of making love and having sex to fucking the next day. Like, if I go up to you, and for 20 years, we've been having the exact same sex, and then I come up to you. And I'm like, Eric Bach, me, like, you're not going to know what to do. Like, it's just like, Well, okay, hold on. Like, I don't want to hurt you. And you have said that before. Like, it's like, sometimes you're like, I'm sorry, was that too aggressive? I don't like it was not aggressive enough. Like, it depends on what mode I'm in. Right. But I think that it's important that you don't just assume that you can jump to this in the sex realm. 100% you have to jump to this and like outside of sex, you know, so if you've been having the same dinners, and we've had podcasts about this before, if you've had the same dinners, your whole 20 years of your relationship, maybe add a little spice to your dinner, maybe change something like start adding adventure and play into your life, so that it's not just like a very routine life, like start changing up your daily routines to try and add some spice to your life before adding spice into your bedroom. Yeah, I agree.

Eric MacDougall
And I you know, have heard a lot of couples where, you know, they they create a separate email account where they can kind of email each other dirty, aggressive talk, or, you know, have different apps on their phones. where they can text each other? Yeah. And that's like, so we have kind of regular text, we talk about regular stuff. And then we have this other area of tax where it's just that idea of the alter ego that you're talking about, where it's like, this is how we talk on this text. Exactly. And

Kate MacDougall
don't be shy to like, share your name with your partner, like, you know, like, this is this is so and so coming out like, and don't be afraid to have clothes. You were just in those moments, you know, like, everyone's like, Oh, by laundrette, yeah, but what are you doing with that laundry, that laundry needs to change who you are. So if you're just wanting to make love that night, or just have sex, don't put on the laundry, put on the lingerie when you're hitting your alter ego, because that woman wears sexy clothes, like she doesn't wear your work clothes, she doesn't wear your work shoes, she wears high heels and lingerie. That is all that woman owns in her closet. So if you're tapping into that alter ego, like, that's when you're going to be able to get out of your mind and really be that alter ego. And then your husband or your partner will see that and be like, Whoa, okay, she tonight, like I can see your personality shift. Yeah, I can see a difference.

Eric MacDougall
I was gonna say to like, understand that this could be intimidating to your partner. Either way, right? If you're the man that wants to approach this conversation and have a little more aggression, or if you're a woman, understand that this change will be intimidating for your partner, and therefore you need to walk through it in a way that's loving, and in a way that slow. Yeah, right. Just like you're saying, Kate, it's not about drop kicking your partner that unless x if that's too aggressive, but instead, you know, maybe it's, Hey, I'm gonna start wearing the sexy clothes one night a week, or hey, I'm gonna start, you know, maybe calling you different names, or maybe using a little more dirty talk exactly what works for me one small step at a time. 

Kate MacDougall
So don't like expect that like one night of sex is gonna go from like, making love to like complete aggression. But like, you know, just asking, you know, while we're having sex, can you like smack me on the one time tonight? Just try it? Yes. Try a little tap, play little tap. And oh, okay. I didn't actually like that, or I loved it next time. Can you do more?

Eric MacDougall
Yeah. And revisit it. I mean, have the experience and have healthy boundaries, right? If you feel like something's hurting, you obviously stop the act. But afterwards, revisit the act and say, like, hey, like how that worked for you. I tried something new. The other thing that, you know, Kate and I do a lot in our sexual relationship is that sometimes, you know, Kate, you'll just push a boundary in the middle of sex, right? You're just like, You know what, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna try this. And, you know, you do it. And if I feel like, hey, maybe it's a little funky at first, but I'm going to allow the act to happen, and then we'll revisit it afterwards, right? You're gonna come to me and say, like, hey, you know, when I did that, what did you think? Oh, well, at first, you know, it was kind of intimidating, but I actually kind of liked it. And I'd like to introduce it a little more interaction, you're like, great. And so it doesn't always have to be a sit down, have a long winded conversation of like, so what if I did this? And could we put in one category with this is and what sometimes it's just about having the act, act, and taking a step, a bold step, right? That's healthy. It's not again, jumping off the deep end. And then afterwards revisiting and say, Hey, so I did that. Did you enjoy that? Or, Hey, did you notice anything different about our sex tonight? And if your partner is like, well, actually, I kind of really liked when you did that, or actually, it was kind of really weird when you did that thing. I'm like, I really did enjoy it. Don't do that again, right? And then that allows you to enter into that conversation, to talk about differentiating, you know, having sex making love, and fucking,

Kate MacDougall
exactly. And also understand that like you, you don't always have to do this in sex, you can start doing little things like, like that, that are very intimate, you know, like, like, I'm going to try and bite your finger tonight. You know, like, while we're kissing and just cuddling in bed, like, I'm gonna bite your finger. Like, is that weird? And then your husband might be like, Yeah, I didn't really like it. Like, that's weird, but like, you know, just little acts like that, that don't have anything to do with the genitals might be a good start to be more physically intimate, in a more aggressive way. Like, I'm going to kiss you at different parts of your body that I've probably never kissed before I'm gonna go find different drowsiness zones like Google them there's like 1000 on your body like try those things before you expect that you're going to be able to go from like this to like anal or this to like slapping or whatever, you know, whatever your fucking looks like because it's different for everybody sometimes. So for some people fucking might be like the girls on top because that's not usually what they do.

Eric MacDougall
You do you okay? Yeah, it's more of an energy. The act exactly right. And I love that you said that because as we're kind of ending, an easy way to introduce this as you know, when you're kissing your partner, you know, maybe as the man you just, you know, put your arm around your wife's waist and you just kind of pull her in. Passively nibble nibble. Exactly for the woman that's something you do sometimes will be kissing and then you just kind of bite my bottom lip. And that's a sign to be like, Hey, this is the energy I want to bring to this moment right now. And then I get to say,

Kate MacDougall
like I'll dig my nails into your back like and like not like dig them links are bleeding but like, you know, I'll put my nails in your back and you a little bit different me It's like, oh, okay, okay, we're not making love tonight like that fingernails are out. Let's go.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah. So really try to understand your own relationship. Right? Number one, again, always make sure that you're owning your own sexuality, it's totally okay. That you want to experience pleasure in the bedroom, something wrong with you, if you love doing different types of things that bring you pleasure, just make sure that, you know, you're open about what you like, you're open about what you don't like. And then you can invite your partner into it to create something pretty magical together. So that's kind of the foundation, right? If you're not on the same page, and you're not enjoying your sex, you need to be having that conversation openly with your partner, right? I'm enjoying this, I'm not enjoying this, you know, this is what I want this what I don't want. And then when you do step into that realm, start to think about differentiating these three things, because they serve a purpose in your relationship, right? The act of sex itself, and that kind of playground serves a purpose, then making love serves a purpose. And finally, fucking each other definitely serves a purpose.

Kate MacDougall
Definitely, and, you know, have some variety in your sex life. Sometimes it's going to be fucking sometimes it's going to be making love. Sometimes it's just going to be having sex. And all of that is okay. There's nothing wrong with you. If there's, you're just fucking once a year, like, that's fine, just as long as it's working for the two of you and if it's not have those discussions.