In this week's episode, Kate & Eric  explore the depths of sexual desires and communication.

Topics:
➡️ Normalizing Sex Talk: Reducing stigma around discussing sexual desires openly.
➡️ Self-Reflection on Sex: Understanding what motivates personal sexual desires.
➡️ Communication Barriers: Overcoming societal pressures and personal fears in discussing sex.

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TRANSCRIPT:

Eric MacDougall
So these questions came up, which I think was really interesting. You know, I love the questions. You share them with me. And I was like, Oh, that's really interesting. So I think the best way to go about it would be to ask these questions, share them with the audience, but then also answer them ourselves.

Kate MacDougall
Oh, yeah. Maybe I'll be a little bit shy to say these answers. 

Eric MacDougall
Yeah, that's true. So one of the things you know, obviously, if you have kids listening, or you're on a bus, and this is on your speakerphone, and everyone's listening,

Kate MacDougall
if you're on a bus, leave it on speaker. I mean, unless there's children around like, this is a topic where people need to start talking about sex more. Yeah, I agree. And even with kids, I mean, but there's a way to talk to them about it. So maybe like not right now. But like, I think I think sex needs to be a much more brought up subject, so that there's less shame and less stigma around it. 100%. So yeah, put it on speakerphone. You're good. You're good.

Eric MacDougall
Okay, so we're going to ask these questions. I apologize in advance, for my answers. If anybody's offended by them?

Kate MacDougall
I'm not. Alright.

Eric MacDougall
What's the first question? The

Kate MacDougall
first question is? What is it that I want? When I want sex? So I'm asking these questions to myself? These are self reflection questions. These are questions you want to ask yourself. And these are questions that we often avoid asking ourselves, or maybe that we haven't even asked ourselves in our life. And a lot of us, like we kind of talked about at the beginning of the episode have sex, for obligation, that that's like part of our job as a spouse, like I'm married, I must have sex because that is part of my job as a spouse. And sex is far more above and beyond that, it it is not about duty, it's about pleasure. It's about connection. It's about a feeling of closeness and intimacy with a person, whether it be your spouse, or a friend or whatever. But sex can be this beautiful thing. But we've, there's so much stigma with society and the way we've been brought up and all of these things that a lot of us have never really stopped to think about that first question is, that is what is it that I want when I want sex? So so

Eric MacDougall
when you have a desire to connect sexually now, what specifically is it that you're wanting? Yeah, yeah. And what's your answer?

Kate MacDougall
My answer is closeness. My answer is if I, if and when I want sex, which we've talked about a lot, I'm not a very high desire partner. I'm not somebody who thinks about sex very often. So when I do think about sex, or when I do think, hmm, I might want to have sex. What I'm thinking about is what I'm actually saying is, I want to feel very close to Eric, I want to feel this sense of closeness to him that I haven't felt in a while. You know, like, there's getting close to you like hugging you dancing with you being close to you cuddling with you. That's closeness, but to me having sexes is far beyond that. It's like a closeness of like, oh my god, super meta, but it's almost like our two souls coming together. Right? Like, it's like a moment of pure surrender to each other. Yeah.

Eric MacDougall
It's like the level of closeness for you during sex is like at a 30 and everything else only ever. It's like a 10. Yeah,

Kate MacDougall
yeah. So I think that when I want to have sex, it's because I'm lacking that closeness with you. Like I can find that closest with you in other ways, holding your hand cuddling with you, like like I just said, but sometimes I want that like, deep intense closeness. Yeah.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah. Does it do you feel like that desire is satisfied after we have a sexual experience? Sometimes?

Kate MacDougall
Yes, sometimes. No. I think that if I can allow myself to get out Have my head and really like, allow myself to feel the moment and not, you know, think, Oh, I have to put on a show or whatever, like, yes, that happens. But sometimes I get in my head during sex or I, you know, I the feeling kind of fades and then I'm like, Nah, not feeling as close as I'd like in this moment. Yeah, cuz now your mind is not close. Yeah, exactly. Or like, even just something silly like, you know, like, we'll we'll be having sex and then all of a sudden, like, you know, the dog will be scratching themselves. Exactly. And then I'm like, gross. Like, this is not Yeah, this is not. I'm not feeling as close as I wanted to right now, because I'm too distracted. Yeah,

Eric MacDougall
yeah, I got it. I appreciate you sharing that.

Kate MacDougall
What about you? What is it that you want when you want sex?

Eric MacDougall
You know, it's funny. I was thinking about this answer just now, as well. And when you say closeness, I was like, yeah, that feels aligned with me to like, I think it's closeness. But there's another part of me that I think I have to be honest, which is, sometimes I want to have sex to almost like, unburden my mind. Like, I guess for me, when I'm having a sexual experience with you or a moment. It's like one of the only times that I'm really able to be in that sensory experience, where it's like, you know, my body's feeling it, there's heat, there's closeness, there's touch. There's so many so much stimulation, but also, like, my mind is really focused on the connection. And that's not something that happens a lot in my life. Like I, you know, obviously, we've joked around, you've talked ramier, HDX, and all that stuff. It's like you're constantly thinking about a million things at once. And I think having sexual connection with you, is one of the moments or one of the times, you know, in my life, it's it's happening where I am like, here hyperfocus Yeah, like, there's nothing else that exists outside of that moment.

Kate MacDougall
Yeah. As I'm really good and bad. 100% 100%

Eric MacDougall
It's because of that. Yeah. And so, you know, I do want to say closeness, sometimes it is closeness, but I do think that I can get the closeness that I seek in a lot of different ways. Sometimes it's just cuddling or making out or just holding each other. I think, for me, hugging and holding each other is a big one. And so I think sometimes when I'm looking for sex, it's almost like, I hate to say this, but like, sometimes it's just like, my mind is going a mile a minute. And it's like, I need to experience like a moment where I'm not, like just thinking about anything. And I'm just like, essentially disappearing from the world. Yeah. And I think the amount of stimulation and connection I experienced during sex allows me to experience that. Nice.

Kate MacDougall
Yeah, I'm glad that helps. Thanks. So the second question is, what is it that I like when I like sex? So not everybody likes sex? That's true. And not all sex that you have. You'll necessarily love? Yeah. Or even sometimes they'll have sex and you'll be like, Yeah, that wasn't doing it for me. Yeah. So what is it? That I like, when I like the sex I'm having? So I'm gonna go first Have you wanna go? You can go first? Because I mean, I have to think about this one. How do I keep this like, this

Eric MacDougall
is the question that I I thought people were gonna get insulted that I was gonna say,

Kate MacDougall
Nobody okay, but but I'm gonna wait for you to answer go for it. Okay,

Eric MacDougall
so for me, I like the I want to say rawness, like that probably feels like a good word. But almost like the like it almost like stripped everything away. And it's just like, skin and fluids and bodies. And like

Kate MacDougall
the word fluids when you mentioned it, we I know. But we but you don't just like swimming in. Sure.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah, but but I think for me, like, that is what I like. It's like, you know, again, it's very animalistic. And I'm like, yeah, like this is, you know, if I really think about it logically, it's kind of like, wow, sex is kind of a weird thing. People do you know what I mean? But then when you're like doing it in the moment, when you're in the moment and experiencing it, it's like, wow, this is like awesome. You know, like, I think about like, just skin pillows, and like all kinds of things happening. Yeah, just like butts and boobs and all kinds of fun stuff. It's very you don't know saying it out loud. This sounds extremely childish.

Kate MacDougall
No, but honestly, no. But for real, though, like when you do think of the act of sex. Like if I was an alien coming to Planet Earth and seeing two people having sex, I would probably be like, What in the heck is going on there? Like, effects can can look a little weird. Like it can be like, Why are two naked bodies rubbing against each

Eric MacDougall
other? And I think part of it too, is like that. I'm, again, going back to the first point where it's like, I'm not in my head. Like I think that's what I like about sex is like having the type of sex that it's just like, I can feel the end of my fingers. touching stuff, I can feel your leg on my leg. You know, I think that's the animalistic part that I like. It's just like, a very, very much like a sensory experience for me.

Kate MacDougall
I'm glad you went there with your answer because I was like, I hope people don't see this as like, you know, I like when my wife kisses my neck. Like, it's like, such a typical gross, like, come on, you're not five years old. Not five, Jesus. Maybe, okay, you're not like 2018 years old? 16.

Eric MacDougall
I don't like boobs and butts is not like, okay, like, I

Kate MacDougall
mean, you can like that you can like when you see a butt bouncing in your face. But I think this question more is more about like, what is it about sex? Like the entire act of sex that you like? So I think your answer was, was good.

Eric MacDougall
I think I talked about this a lot. But like, I love physical affection. Like, I love it. When I see people, I hug them, like touching you, like, you know, and so to experience, the sensory experience in my body as we're having sex, like, that's what I like. And I think we're having like sex in a way that's just like one position, and we're just kind of going at it and we finished like, Okay, that was nice. It was enjoyable, but like, not all my senses were going right. That makes sense. Yeah. What are you? I'm

Kate MacDougall
blushing because I'm thinking of my answer. And I'm like, do I want to say this? Like, I feel like

Eric MacDougall
you said we have to talk about it. It's like,

Kate MacDougall
no, but I feel like okay, everybody. I like I like

Eric MacDougall
oh, wow, people are on the edge of their seats

Kate MacDougall
and thought even though I'm one of those people, it's it's it's I have traveled talking about sex, but I am getting better at it. But I like Gina not edgy nails. Oh my God. Not at all what I'm trying to say. Like, I like, I like feeling young and crazy. Again, when we have sex. Like I like the type of sex where you can like, maybe get caught or like, you know, kind of like when you

Eric MacDougall
just looking at you. i

Kate MacDougall
That's it. That's the kind of sex I like,

Eric MacDougall
so no, it's not the type of sex you like, it's what do you like, when you like,

Kate MacDougall
I like when I like having the risk, the risk. I like the like the naughtiness or not Enos of it. Like, you know, yeah, like, that's what I like. Struggle, that's

Eric MacDougall
okay. I get it. I think a lot of people I think, you know,

Kate MacDougall
yeah, that's, that's what I like, I like the, I don't want to get caught, oh, my God, and I don't want to have sex in public where I might actually get caught. But I like the idea of maybe getting caught. I like the idea of like, doing it somewhere where, like, you know, so that's, that's the kind of sex I like, when we're having it, it's like, and that sex can be done in the bedroom, like at our house, like, it's, you know, like having a quickie in the afternoon, or, you know, like that kind of sex kind of like the risky kind of sex or like, the sex where you are, like, maybe like unfamiliar, I think I think the reason I like it so much is because I spend a lot of time in my head. And I spent a lot of time having to wear this like professional mask because of my job. And because of you know, the person I am just generally like, I walk around, you know, and I feel like I have to like keep this persona, right. Growing up in the house. I did, it was very much like, I always wanted to make my family proud. I always wanted to make sure that I was showing up exactly how everybody around me wants me to show up. That's kind of how I walk around life. So kind of like you like having sex allows me to like let go of those masks and just completely be like the little.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah, it's funny how

Kate MacDougall
a little rough I want to be. Yeah. So

Eric MacDougall
I really do appreciate what's happening here. What you're saying, I think is a very common thing for people but especially for women, which is I think women have been conditioned to hide certain aspects of themselves. Yeah.

Kate MacDougall
And, and the fact that I'm giggling about this, like, I know, like, if I was sitting with a few girlfriends, I think I'd have no problem talking about this. I mean, the fact that I know that. We have a lot of listeners, we have a lot of listeners now. We always joke that we have just five it's not just five that now everyone's gonna know that about me and there is nothing wrong with me desiring these things and there's nothing wrong with me. It's absolutely normal for me to want these things and to love these things and to want to be, you know, a little rebel or whatever, but it's still so ingrained in me that women don't talk that way. That's not lady like that's not Yeah, it's not appropriate. And so it's hard for me to put myself out there like that. So, you know, I appreciate all the listeners listening, and I know you're not judging me. I just, I'm just having trouble talking about it.

Eric MacDougall
Well, and I know, and I think it's a skill. I think what you're displaying here, like live for listeners, I think is very real. Yeah. And I think it's, it's very common, I think, you know, as much as we love to, like, read books and look on, you know, YouTube and other people are just openly talking about sex, and they're talking like, the reality is, is that it's in our society, it's not a topic that everybody openly talks about. Exactly.

Kate MacDougall
And when you do, it's not necessarily comfortable for everybody. So, yeah, honestly, this topic, it's like, we're having so many. I'm having so much fun talking about this. Okay, even though it's awkward and weird, and people are probably like, Oh, my God, poor Kate. She's like, she's struggling through this. I'm not, I'm not I do enjoy talking about sex a lot. And it is something that I'm getting used to talking about. But every time I do talk about it, there's this like, super liberating feeling that comes out. And I'm like, Oh, wow, that felt really good. And I really hope that me talking about it as a woman inspires other women who might be feeling uncomfortable to express their desires to their husband, and your openness to what I'm responding to sharing might, you know, inspire other women to say like, Hey, maybe if I open up to my husband like this, he'll respond that way, too.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah. And I want to say like, I think there, there is a fear again, I'm not a woman. So I don't know. But I do think based on a lot of what I read and kind of understand about couples, there is a fear. I think there's two big fears for women. So first is that they're gonna go to their husband, or they're gonna open up about this, and the man is gonna feel like emasculated, right. This is like a big part of why women hide how many sexual partners they've had. Right? Because the reality is like, oftentimes, it might have more than maybe more sexual experience. But they don't want to hurt their fragile husbands sexual ego, like I get that that's something that's been for a very long time. And so I do see women like hiding their desires, saying, like, Hey, this is one of our tribe, but it's too intimidating for the man. And therefore, they're just like, I guess I'll just keep that part of myself hidden, kind of locked away. But there's, I think there's another fear, which is, I'm going to talk about this, like, just like the way you did, and then I'm going to be like, awesome. We're like, going shopping, and we're going to go in a changing room, and we're going to do and you're like, Wow,

Kate MacDougall
no, no, you know, I like it. I don't necessarily want to get right.

Eric MacDougall
But it's like this idea of like, I'm gonna take your desire the thing you like, and I'm gonna like, ramp it up to 1000. And then make it mine.

Kate MacDougall
Yeah, I think I think honestly, that that is my biggest fear. Or maybe was my biggest fear of opening up was, if I say this, like is they're gonna go out and buy me all these like, you know, dominatrix suits, because I said, I wanted to be a rebel. Like, like, no, that's not what I mean. Like, yeah, so yeah, I think there definitely is this fear of opening up and what's gonna happen after I say these things, like, put the genie back in the bottle? Yeah. And just because that's what I like when I like having sex doesn't mean that that's the sex I want to have all the time. You know, there's I don't want to have quickies all the time. That's not what I like, I don't want to have that risky sex where, you know, like, where I feel like, Ooh, you know, like, kind of on the edge. Like, I like having that kind of sci fi is not the only sex I like, and it's not the only sex I want to have. Yeah, it's just what kind of up for you is your kind of anxiety for this question. Exactly. And I think the fear is there that like, oh, that's the kind of sex she wants, every time we have sighs we're gonna make it risky. And it's like, oh, my gosh, no, no, because then it's gonna get boring. Like the reason I like it. It's because it doesn't happen. Often. It's fallible. It's just Yeah. But ya know, this has been awesome. And honestly, like, I think we've covered just to two of the questions. Yeah, I

Eric MacDougall
think maybe we should do is, you know, keep the next three questions for next week's episode. Yeah, that way people can kind of take these questions, digest them and bring it to their partner, ask them for themselves to reflect. Even just, you know, talk about them. If you have friends and stuff, right, it might be a great topic of conversation, just to openly talk about this stuff.

Kate MacDougall
Absolutely. And I know that Emily Makowski, in her book, she said for a lot of women a really good question to ask yourself, and then might be a good start. Because I know you often talk about like, where you're going, where do you want to go? But for some people, the question of, what is it that I like when I like having sex? Some people might not have the answer for that. And if you don't have the answer for that, you can ask yourself, well, what is it that I don't like when I'm having sex? Right? Or just to make sure, or what is it that I don't want? When I don't want sex? That's more I think that's one of the questions she's asking is what is it that I don't want when I don't want sex? Right? Because a lot of people, maybe they haven't had sex in a very long time. Maybe this is something for health reasons or for whatever reasons, they haven't been having sex and Whatever that reason is, it's important to look inwards and ask like, what is it that I don't want from Sykes? Like, what am I not liking about it? Or, you know, what is it that is stopping me from wanting to have sex. And that's a good start for people who might not be at a place where they're ready to give their bodies for sex. So that's another good one too.

Eric MacDougall
And I think just continuing to think about this topic and kind of dive deeper into your beliefs about sex, your thoughts about sex, what it means to you. I think it's really important. And I think opening that up to your partner, right, and just saying, Okay, here's my fears around sex, here's what I think. I think, you know, even though maybe at first, it might be a little jarring for them. I do think it's very connecting, and can often also be very healing, to be opening up about some of these fears that you might have.