This episode examines the impact of digital distractions on intimacy, urging a rediscovery of genuine connection in relationships.

We chat about:
➡️The journey to reconnect with long-term partners
➡️Strategies to cultivate deeper connections
➡️Benefits of facing the discomfort that comes with reducing screen time, leading to personal growth and improved relationship quality

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TRANSCRIPT:

Eric MacDougall
Alright, so today, our topic is about barriers to intimacy. Yeah. So this is a big one.

Kate MacDougall
Yeah, we've they're out gone. Eric had a great idea. Eric had a great idea. Eric was like when he was super angry. Yeah, he was, you know, we were angry at our kids for having fits all the time. Anytime you turn on a TV that have fits like to watch it or you know, plays by his by his place. And then we turn on the TV and they watch an episode each. And then we turn off the TV. And then they were like monsters. So I'm like, You know what, I read somewhere that some kids don't do well with technology. And Eric was like, running with it. And he was like, let's remove TVs out of your life. So I was like, Sure, no problem. I thought he'd like take the wires out from the wall with TV remote. That's he said maybe we're gonna be remote. No, no, I actually thought you'd like unplug it or something. No, he legit took off the mount from our wall mounted TV and patched the hole. That's how I roll. I came home and I was like, surround. How do you your patch some holes? Like are you not expecting to put the TV?

Eric MacDougall
The picture frame I was gonna put up there and yeah, I saw that. I was like, wow. So talking about what we learned through this experience of having no TV in our home. Yeah, and things like that. But yeah, we remove TV. It's been three weeks. Yeah, three weeks. Yeah. So I mean, that's a real it's been kind of great. It's

Kate MacDougall
been it's been great. Honestly, the fits with the kids have diminished a lot. We've noticed them reading more and using their imagination more spending times with them. during their free time with friends, and as a family, it's forced us to create time together. Connection and I'm saying forced us like, like, it's not like against our will kind of thing. But we've definitely been encouraged to spend more time as a family and play games together and have more conversations together without, you know, because after school, usually what they would do is watch an hour of TV. And the next thing you know, we're doing homework, lunches, dinners, go, go go like it was like fall into the routine. So now we're like, what are we going to do with this extra like hour that we usually don't connect together? Yeah. And on weekends, like, we never really watched much TV anyway. But what this did was also force Eric and I off of our electronics, because

Eric MacDougall
that's right. So we don't watch any television on iPad or phones or anything like that. We've been really intentional about trying to get off screens. And, you know, just like you said, you know, we're not only the kids are reading more, we're reading more as a family. We're playing games more. We're cooking more as a family too. Right. So everyone's in the kitchen together cooking.

Kate MacDougall
Yeah, the kids are learning to use knives. Yeah, exactly. So

Eric MacDougall
it's created a lot of these really great moments of connection, right? Because, essentially, there was kind of this vacuum that was usually taken up by TV time, but now there's nothing so we have to figure out how to do something. Yeah. Right. And so that's been really great. There's a couple other things we noticed through rooming TV. Yeah.

Kate MacDougall
So there's been a lot of positives. Yeah. It's been a lot of like, wow, we get to spend so much more time together and things like that. But there's also been a lot of like epiphanies, like, oh, not epiphanies. That's the wrong word. Kind of like, oh, shoot moments. Yeah. Because oftentimes, Eric and I, and we are not the only couple, I'm sure. But TV became like a crutch. The kids would go to bed. I would scroll on my phone or watch a couple of episodes of whatever dating show on TV shows on I'd

Eric MacDougall
read, but like, essentially, the we would both be looking in the direction of a television. Yes, multiple nights a week.

Kate MacDougall
Yes. And that was comfortable. Because it was like, ah, like we get to, you know, we get to be together, but not necessarily have to, like do anything. And not having TVs made us realize that without that crutch. We were actually not really together. Yeah, like we had created this illusion that we spent a lot of time together because we watched a lot of movies together. And we watched TV almost every night, side by side, we'd be sitting with each other. But it was truly an illusion. Because now that we have no TVs in our life. We're like, Who is this stranger sitting beside me? I don't even know how to speak.

Eric MacDougall
It's almost like it kind of brought like not to say we're disconnected. But it brought the gap between us. Like front and center. Yeah, like something that we can just very evident. Yeah, that we can just put on hold. Yeah, say like, Oh, wow. Like, we're, we have a night off. We don't have TV. And now we got to like figure out how to have conversations together to do Yeah. And really conversations that aren't just about business or what happened during the day or Yeah, etc.

Kate MacDougall
And then that that was my first realization was like, okay, yeah, we're having conversations. Yeah, we're doing this. Okay, we're watching TV like, Yay, we're spending time together. But what we were talking about was very, like, okay, so on Monday, I'm gonna go bring it a day to gymnastics and on Wednesday, you're gonna bring Francis to scouts don't pick him up, okay. And then business. Right? It was like, let's talk about our agenda, let's talk about finances. And then all of a sudden, now we're kind of like in the hard part of it, where it's like we haven't really communicated like communicated for real and a long time. And we are realizing that our communication has been very transactional. And there's not a lot of emotion. There's not a lot of talking about how we're feeling or opening up or we desire wiping about dreams, talking about what we want kind of talking about our goals, what we're working on, like it's been very like two individual people living in the same home spending time together and evenings watching TV. It wasn't we weren't as connected as we thought we were.

Eric MacDougall
That's right. Yeah. And I think it's really important. You know what, what it brought to light for me was that having a screen in the way we did and how it was kind of into our lives and not just talking about TV necessarily, because I've also removed reading off my tablet trying to get off computers last year turning off your phone last like we've really been made an intentional effort. Not only has it created all these beautiful moments with our family, but it also has brought to light things that I think we have been ignoring for long time. And then because we had distractions, it was easy to ignore, it was easy to distract ourselves from the disconnection we were experiencing, right? Because whenever I was feeling frustrated or something, you know, if I had a TV, it's like, oh, I'm kind of feeling frustrated, disconnected, I'll just throw on a TV show, or I'll just kind of walk around the house, while I haven't shown my iPad or listening to something. And vice versa, right? Sometimes we'd go in bed together, I would read on my tablet, you'd be on your phone, etc. And what we really want to bring to light in this episode was this idea that the screens are a barrier to intimacy, right. And we're gonna talk about this a little bit more, because, you know, really understanding this idea of dopamine and how it works. Like, I don't want to go too deep into it. But the reality is, is that, you know, before there were screens before, we had, like, an insane amount of pleasure available to us all the time at our fingertips. Yeah, like, let's just be real here. You know, I love the, the analogy that people use, which is like a cactus in a rainforest, right, which is like, the way that we are as humans right now. And the amount of pleasure we have access to in our lives, we don't even know what to do with would be like a cactus living in a rainforest doesn't need that much greenery, water, etc, right? So it's overwhelming. And this is the lives we live in. If you want something, it's immediately available to you, yeah, go on your phone and order it, you can go in your fridge and eat it, you can go, you know, whatever. And so there's never any desire, you know, that goes unfulfilled, right. And so really taking that into understanding when we have this, this dopamine machine, whether it's our phones are able to order something off Amazon are able to watch infinite amount of tea on Netflix, etc. It creates a barrier to intimacy, because what used to give our dopamine kick, you know, let's say pre TV age, or, you know, when TV was respectable in our homes, and we didn't have as much streaming, etc, a lot of the doping we would get would come from our intimate relationship. Right? So because we would connect with our partner, we talk to our partner, or with our partner, friends, we get on the phone, we talk about things, right, etc. Well, we were getting a lot of dopamine from those relationships. And because we were doing that, it was then creating a stimulus for us to go back to it, right. So if every time you talk to your friend, you felt great, well, you probably ought to call her friend more often. Yeah, every time you're in bed with your partner, you're laughing, and you're talking and you're cuddling, and you're connecting, maybe you're having sex, well, you probably don't wanna go back to that. But if over time, now you have this, these other avenues that give you the dopamine kick, well, there's no need to connect with your partner. And if connecting with a partner is actually more of a challenge, even if it's not that much of a challenge, if it's more of a challenge, than clicking a button on your phone, and having infinite dopamine kicks, you're probably not going to go for it.

Kate MacDougall
Yeah, and like, I'm not, I'm not even gonna get in the science of this. But I've been researching a lot on technology and the impact it has on human emotions and human beings. And the type of dopamine kick you get from technology is very different than a type of reopening kit you get from human interaction, it's not as intense and it's not as high because the sorry, the, the human attraction isn't as high because a dopamine kick from an electronic device. There's lights, there's sounds, there's action, there's movements, there's constant, constant movement, constant change of stimulation, so much stimulation, whereas with a human, it doesn't move as fast, it's not as flashy. And it's not as intense as an any kind of electronic. So it's, not only is it more attractive to get a dopamine hit from electronics, we're also training our bodies, that that's the kind of dopamine kick that they need. So it's like if you were doing cocaine versus marijuana, for example, right? Like, if you're doing marijuana, it's all good, you kind of get it high, whatever, but then try cocaine and you're gonna get this like, Major. And you're gonna be like, Wow, you mean, I can do one small hit of cocaine, and get twice the effects of this marijuana have been doing for years? Like, give me more of that. And that's how addiction start. Right? So that's why we're getting so many people who are addicted to electronics, and, you know, with kids who are just zombies in front of it, and like, you know, we're all saying, Oh, the kids, the kids are so like, attached to their screens, like, we're just as bad adults, we are just as bad, of course. So, you know, what we would like to invite you to do is pull out all the TVs of your home. And I mean, you don't have to be that extreme. But just start creating awareness around, you know, yeah, we're connected, but are we like really connected? Or are we sitting in front of a screen? Like, if we were if we were to turn off TV for two nights, 48 hours? What would we do? What will we talk about? And maybe the first 48 hours are gonna be like, Hey, we played cards. That was so much fun. You given another 48 hours and another 48 hours, eventually that's going to start that, like your high from the dopamine from TV is going to start diminishing. And then the high from like the first few card games is going to start diminishing and you're probably going to be left with like this like, Okay, now what like,

Eric MacDougall
I think that's really important understand, because as you remove this thing that's constantly stimulating you and it's constant available to you, you're naturally going to seek other ways. And that's kind of what we've experienced lately, which is, we actually have to be very aware not to just reintroduce something else, right. So it's like, you know, now TV is gone, it would be very easy for you and I to just sit in a room and read. And again, there's nothing wrong with any of this. Now, if you wanna watch TV, go ahead. Like, if you want to TV is great. You don't know me wrong. But it's just an idea of understanding how we naturally have a tendency to want to deal with our uncomfortable feelings, by distracting ourselves or getting some sort of kick, right. And what we've experienced is that, oh, now we have to kind of deal with this comfort at this discomfort. And in this discomfort, there's actually a lot of opportunity for growth and connection.

Kate MacDougall
Yes, right. Yeah. And it has been uncomfortable, honestly, it has been, it's been a realization of like, wow, we're two people who have been together for over 20 years. And I feel like I know you the least than I've ever known you right now in this moment. And when I think back, and I'm like, Well, what happened? Why don't you know, Eric anymore. And I'm like, biome. Very easy. Now that I've taken technology out. It's because I had made up an illusion that we had a great connection. Because we would sit together. We'd go to bed together. We'd you know, every night, you know, you say this, it's like an Instagram real like, oh, yeah, every night, we sit together. And every night we lay in bed together. But it's like, Well, every night we're actually sitting together in front of a TV not really having conversation, not really looking at each other in the eyes. Every night. Yeah, we are going to bed together. But you've got your nose in your book, and I've got my nose and my phone, and like your like ebook, and me and my phone. And we're not really looking at each other. We're not talking, we're not even looking at each other in the eyes. Like, when is the last time you truly sat? And looked at your partner in their eyes? Yeah, when is the last time that you kissed your partner and truly felt their skin on your skin? Like their lips, skin on your lips skin? Like you felt that kiss? It wasn't just like, Okay, goodnight. Yeah, like, When is the last time you noticed your partner. And it is incredible. If you really sit there and you remove yourself from this illusion that we make up? That it's like, wow, it's been a very long time. Yeah, and

Eric MacDougall
I want to jump in here. Because I, what we're talking about is a very normal human experience, right? And if you kind of break it down. So the catalyst for change, what typically drives us to change is discomfort. Yeah, so that's at the core of who we are as human beings. When we experience a discomfort, it's the catalyst for change, which means that it drives us to do something different. The big challenge that I think is important understand with these devices, is that you can essentially be for lack of return kind of duped into thinking that your relationships, okay, because you're not experiencing a lot of pain. And what, what that all that really means is that you're essentially continuing to get these kicks of dopamine whenever you feel pain. And as long as you have an infinite amount of, you know, TV, or reels or books to read on your iPad or whatever, you never actually have to face the pain. And because you never have to face the pain, well, then your body starts to think there's nothing wrong. And so you don't actually see reality for what it is, you're only essentially going with this idea of the pain receptors, and I'm not gonna get into science of if you continue to go down this road, actually, your ability to experience pain totally becomes like you can hardly experience any pain, it's like going outside and or talking to somebody or calling your friend is going to be painful, right? Right. And so not to go into that, but just really understanding that you need to be experiencing some sort of discomfort in order to create growth. And that's essentially what we did with by removing the television, removing screens, right? Not only do we intentionally say, hey, this will create an opportunity for us to do really amazing things. That's a big part of the driving factor. And that's kind of what our vision is we want to create. So we're always aligned with that. That's what we're trying to move towards. But we're also not diluting ourselves that we're going to experience some discomfort as in it's going to be harder before it gets easier. Right and we experienced that as soon as we took out the TVs our son yelled he was really unhappy the first night. It was kind of weird the first night.

Kate MacDougall
I cried. Yeah. kinds of stuff. In my room. Yeah.

Eric MacDougall
But over time, what happens is you overcome that. And then the next problem you face that maybe you've been avoiding or getting distracted by. And so it's really important understand that once you remove these barriers to intimacy, once you remove these things that are constantly giving you these hits of dopamine, well, then you essentially have to face reality. And what we're telling you here is essentially just an invitation to face reality, right? To face the hard stuff. Because Kate and I, we believe, like, if you're not in your relationship to grow as an individual and experience more of life, well, then there's no reason to be in a relationship. Right? I think we're at the day and age where a lot of people can live alone if they want to, right, a lot of the ways reasons people live together, way back in the past are no longer relevant financial situations, raising kids, etc. And so you really need to ask yourself, you know, why, like, what is the benefit to me being married, and to Kate and I, the benefit is to grow ourselves as individuals and grow together, to challenge ourselves together to do more to face the hard stuff, so that we can experience a more fulfilling life.

Kate MacDougall
Yeah, and unfortunately, it took that wake up call for us to be like, Whoa, Oopsies. Yeah. And you know, we could be hard on ourselves, we could punish ourselves, we could be like, Oh, my gosh, what were we thinking? We're terrible people, blah, blah, blah. But it's like, no, now let's just take this as a great opportunity to learn and grow from here. And so this wake up call has been eye opening. For us. It's been interesting. It's been stressful and uncomfortable. But it's also going to help us grow closer.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah, it's also been very connecting. Yeah, exactly. Reading and very, you know, exactly.

Kate MacDougall
Like, we're going to create new ways to connect. And we're going to find new ways to get to know each other. And we're going to, you know, leave the crutch out of it with a crutch being the TV and the electronics, leave the crutch out of it. And truly connect to each other as to humans again, just like we would at the beginning of the relationship, like when we first started dating, it wasn't like her, you want to come over and watch TV the whole time. Like it was like, we were going out to restaurants, we go to parties, we go and meet friends, like we were constantly out and doing things. It's hard to go out and do things now that we have kids, but doesn't mean we can't, you know, do things experience.

Eric MacDougall
And yeah, so our challenge to you is to really invite you to think about these barriers and emcee and just do something different. And this could look different for everybody, right? No need to remove TVs from your home. Maybe it's just hey, from now, on two dinners a week, we won't have cell phones at the table. It could be Hey, tonight, when we go watch TV, or you know, tomorrow we go watch TV, we actually will sit on the couch and we won't turn the TV on will actually force ourselves have conversations in front of the on the couch.

Kate MacDougall
Yeah. Or let's have a conversation for 10 minutes before turning on.

Eric MacDougall
Exactly right. Let's play a card game.

Kate MacDougall
 And then we'll watch TV.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah, whatever your starting point is for you. Think about hey, how can I create maybe a different relationship with some of these, you know, dopamine kicks or barriers to intimacy. So I can then understand what needs to fill that vacuum, which hopefully is the connection with yourself and your partner.