The ONLY Way to Get Unstuck in your Marriage

In this episode, Eric and Kate MacDougall explore the concept of the "two choice dilemma" and its impact on personal and marital decision-making.

Topics:
➡️ Understanding the "two choice dilemma" and its role in forcing difficult choices.
➡️ Real-life analogies illustrating common dilemmas in work and relationships.
➡️ Strategies for overcoming fear and making proactive, transformative decisions.

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TRANSCRIPT:

Eric MacDougall
So today, we're talking about a topic that I talk about a lot. It's a topic that is tough for people to accept, but it's very real. And is often the way that I help men kind of get unstuck. We call this the two choice dilemma. We might have talked about this before. But I have a whole analogy for kind of explaining this that we're going to talk about today, then we're gonna talk about kind of two choice dilemmas and how they work in marriage, because they're present and long term marriages all the time, but they're present in human life all the time. And if you can understand this concept of the two choice dilemma, then you can actually make choices more quickly, and continue to create, you know, momentum and progress, regardless of what you're facing. And so if you kind of break down a two choice dilemma is essentially a situation where, you know, you have two choices. And the only choices you have are to remain the same. Or change. Okay, so that's the foundation of it all. So it's essentially like, you're living this life, and there's a lot of stuff going on in your life, and you're not really enjoying the situation. And you want to change, but you know that if you're going to change, essentially, you're going to have to face your own anxieties and fears. discomfort, right? And it's essentially like not a good situation, right? And so it's the way that two choice love is explained, is it's a choice between two shitty options, the option to stay in a not so great situation, or to do something and not know what's going to happen.

Kate MacDougall
Yeah, and that's the the unknown, it's What's the scariest part for humans? Because we so like, our main goal in life is to stay comfortable to stay stay it to stay away to avoid pain. Absolutely. So if we're about to jump in headfirst to something, we have no idea what the outcome will be. Yeah, sometimes it's feels much safer to say, in what you know, even though what you know, might be a pile of poo.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah, we've talked about this analogy before, right of the pile of poo, you're in and first, like, I don't like this, but over time, you kind of get used to it. I may just say thanks. But, you know, the example that I use, and I think a lot of people can relate to is the work example, right? Like the career. And so plenty of people go to work. And they you know, I'd say they don't like their job. But some people like literally hate their job. Yeah. Right. And they continue to go to work, and they justify why they go to work, right to provide for the family, etc. And they continue to go to job they don't like because the fear of changing their job and maybe starting again, being new somewhere losing their seniority, maybe losing money, taking a risk, all this stuff is scarier than continuing to go to work in a really crappy situation, right? And so in that case, what happens is they start to just build this sense of numbness to the situation. Yeah,

Kate MacDougall
there's like this thing I remember hearing a story about like, not a story. It's not a story. It's actually a scientific experiment, like where they kept administering a shock to like a mouse, and they just kept taking it like because the, the other outcome was like, worse. So they just kind of learned to, like, get used to the shock, like, and it's so that's what we do. We just like, You know what, I'll just sit here and suffer and wait for retirement and X number of years. And, yeah, I think we grind it out. Right.

Eric MacDougall
And from an outside perspective, this is what the challenge is, right? from an outside perspective. A lot of people can like, give you what they like what they would do, because we're not in the situations on wires leave a job and want to just leave that marriage. Why would you put up to that? Yeah, but like, we all face these situations, where we're not really enjoying the situation we're in but to make a change brings up our anxieties more and brings up our fears more, therefore we don't do it. Yeah,

Kate MacDougall
you actually brought this really nice analogy at dinner time. Maybe you could share it. I thought that Yeah, it really puts it into perspective. Like you're like, oh my gosh, like, I don't know what I would do.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah. And I want to finish on this point. Right. Before I talk about my analogy that the really, I don't want to say toxic thing. But the hard thing about the two choice dilemma is oftentimes, especially in a relationship, because we're a marriage podcast in a relationship. When you're faced with a two choice dilemma, you're gonna do everything you can to try to avoid making the choice. So like, you don't want to stay in this situation. Right? Because you're not enjoying it. And I don't mean like leave your marriage right? I mean, Like maybe maybe you're not having sex for your partner. So, and you're like that. So that's uncomfortable. And then your options are like, bring up the fact that you're not having sex, but that could cause a fight. So let's take an example of a two choice dilemma. Do I continue to like not have sex my partner and not talk about it, knowing that if I do talk about it, it might cause a fight. So a perfect example of a very simple two choice lemma. So what you do typically, is you either try to kind of change the environment, and in that case, get your partner to make a choice to do something different. So you spent a lot of time and energy to try to get your partner to do something, or you wait for a better option to come along. And this is like, you know, you wait, so that one day your wife might wake up and be like, Oh, after 10 years, now I want to have sex. Right? And so that's like, that's the fallacy of the two choice lemma. So what do we do, we typically wait, or we spent a lot of energy trying to change the outside, so we don't have to make the decision. So that's like the, the idea of the two choice lemma. The analogy that I use, and I sometimes talk about this in the mastermind is, you know, if you imagine you're kind of on this river, you're in a canoe, or sitting with your paddling, paddling. And the river is life, right? So you think about like, life is just moving forward, and the river is gonna move with or without you, it's just life, you either get to participate in life and decide to engage with it or not, it's up to you. Exactly, so you can just like take your pad out of the water and just float, and life's gonna happen. And it's going to, you know, act around you and things are gonna happen. So that's kind of the analogy or in this canoe, and you're, you're on this river. But then what happens is, you look up ahead, and your feared future. So if you imagine you're in a situation where maybe you haven't had a lot of sexual partner, maybe it's been six months, three months, whatever, two years doesn't matter. But it's been a long time. Now you start to imagine this feared future, that you're never gonna have sex again. And that's the fear now you're tackling with, right, because because of that fear, now, it puts things into perspective of like, I have to do something. So that is what actually creates a sense of urgency now, to stay the same. And so if you imagine you're down this river on this canoe, and you look way up ahead, and there's waterfalls. So the waterfalls signify kind of the fear, right? Of like, Oh, if this continues, you know, I'm gonna live in this not good thing. And that's, that's what you're scared of. So you see the waterfalls, you see coming. And I have a couple options. First, you don't know what's beyond the waterfalls, right? And so there could be like a little tiny waterfall, and then you go through it, and then it's fine again, or it could be like, you know, to the death. And that's, that's the idea here is your brain is going to make up this fear, which is the waterfall, but it's unknown. You don't know what happens after. So if you think like, oh, it's a sexless marriage. Like, you don't think beyond that. So it's just pain, right? But I mean, plenty of people have a really great life, and they don't have sex with the partner in the marriage, right. And so the idea here is that you're only seeing the waterfall, which to you is doom. And so now you're starting to get agitated. And you have some options, right? You can essentially keep going towards that waterfall and just live and say, whatever. Hopefully that waterfall eventually changes or something happens. But I'm just going to essentially sit in this canoe and be a victim of this. And here we go. I'm stuck. And plenty of people do that. People are in marriages, in jobs in situations where they're like, Oh, well, it is what it is. I guess I'm just stuck here. Right? And they feel very powerless to do stuff. That idea of the victim mentality is very hard to get out of without help. So that's some people live that way. Now, you have another option. A lot of people do. Right? And this is the other option that a lot of people do. So you can wait for something better to come along. So what these people look like is they take their paddle, and they put it in the water, and they just start paddling backwards,

Speaker 1
and you're dancing and yes, I'm paddling and paddling backwards. And so they're just like,

Eric MacDougall
I'm not I'm stopping and go towards that waterfall. I'm resisting and maybe another canoes gonna come along. Maybe eventually my you know, my partner's gonna start paddling. Maybe so but all I'm doing right now is I'm just paddling the other way. Right? I'm watching people go over the waterfall. I'm watching people jump out of this canoe. Plenty of people were like coming by us. They're on shore like Dude, get out of that canoe. What are you doing, you know, do something and you're just like, um, you know, I'm just gonna keep paddling. I'm kind of good right here, right? But meanwhile, the water is moving. And you're not moving. But life is moving. Life is passing you by your kids are getting older. You're getting older things are happening. Right? You have an end. And that's kind of the idea here is that at some point, you have to understand that urgency.

Kate MacDougall
Yeah. And paddling backwards gets you exhausted. Yep, much faster. And that's what happens in life when you just kind of stand still. Oftentimes, you're Curt, you're angry, You're quick to react you have you carry your emotions in a very negative way. Not negative not to say they're negative emotions, but maybe you're you're just not feeling good. And that happens to everyone sometimes, but when you're playing idling backwards for that long, it becomes your like, state of being, you're just like, always angry, always anxious, always, you know, very quick to react. And then you wake up and you wonder, well, what's wrong? Like, Why am I always like this? Well, it's like, if you really sat there and thought about it, it's like, are you just sitting still in your life? Are you paddling backwards? Or are you letting life care you? Or are you about to do this? Next option?

Eric MacDougall
That's right. And so again, I made a lot of people and one of the things that I do, that's really important to me is I never tell people that they need to stop doing what they're doing. No, that's very, that's very important to me. I know a lot of people who come to me, and I explained this whole situation, and I'm like, hey, just so you know, the coaching that I do is really about progression and change, transformation. So you're gonna have to do some stuff that is going to make you uncomfortable, but we're going to do it in a way that you know, as healthy loving, etc. And at your pace. Yeah. And then we start to have the conversation, you know, it's like, well, how much longer? Are you willing to stay in this situation? You know, like, oh, not forever? And then then I start, you know, 10 years? And they're like, no, no, like, five years? And then the closer you get, then they start saying, again, I don't know, I don't know. And they don't want to talk about it. Because now you're putting the reality in front of them. Right, one year, are you going to, it's like, well, if you want to stay like this for one year, doesn't make sense to work together. Right? Because to me, I'm going to, you know, help you create transformation, and that's going to transform your relationship. And that's really important, but people are scared of that. Because for me, I'm often about the third option, which is we change the system, we overcome emotional gridlock, right? And so you essentially decide to learn new skills. So you can do the third option, which is jump out of the canoe, right? You need to jump out of the canoe and go to shore and realize there's a whole other life. And you can essentially navigate and plan life as much as you want. And so maybe you jump out of the canoe. And once you're out of the canoe, you're like, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to ride all the way down this waterfall now. On my own, let's go for it. I'm going to face my biggest fear, and I'm going to just punch right through it. Or maybe you're like, hey, now that I threaten to jump out of the canoe, my partner is like, oh, no, no, don't jump in the water. Let's figure this out. So we can work together great. Or maybe it's like I jumped in the water and the partners like awesome, I'm also gonna jump in the water, then you realize like, oh, we can just swim around here. This is sweet. And we can have a great experience in this area. This is sweet, right? But people don't want to jump out of the canoe. Because they're scared they're not going to be able to swim. And that's the that's the analogy I give, right? And this is the hardest part. Because if you have the fear that you can't swim, there's absolutely no way you're jumping in the water. We've all seen those people right with like 12 lifejackets on a cruise, and they can't, like, you know, can't get near the side and our suit debt afraid. And again, it's like it's it's scary to jump in the water. But what I tell every single man, when I say this analogy, is I gather you're afraid to swim. But you got to realize there's only about four feet of water. And so when you jump out of the canoe, and you're afraid you can't swim, all you got to do is stand up. And that's what standing on your own two feet is all about. Because you have the power to create the change you want. It's up to you to live your life, it's up to you to be kind of the person who creates your own destiny.

Kate MacDougall
Right. And I think what happens is, I think what what goes on in a lot of people's minds is is, is if I jump out of this canoe, then that's it. That's my new path. Now I have to walk on shore for the rest of my life. And I don't want to walk on shore, I enjoyed being in the water. But now I'm stuck here. Now I'm on shore. And now that said, this is my new life. And that's not true. You know, sometimes you need to jump out of your canoe, go on shore for a little bit. Take a little walk. So you can get back on the other side of the waterfall. And then just get back in your canoe or build another canoe and then get back in it like yeah, it's not always that simple. Sometimes that you will have to cut down a tree, carve out a new canoe and, you know, start start paddling again. But what I'm trying to say is you're never stuck in a decision you're never stuck in, you know, anything you choose to do. That's right. So if for example, you did decide to jump out of that canoe, talk to your wife, talk to your partner, about your unhappiness in your sex life about how you know you've this is something that's in Yeah, this is something that's important for you and it's been lacking in your relationship and you'd like to start making some changes there. And your partner does not take to it well. Well, it doesn't mean that that's that's it, you're doomed and your relationships over and that's it. That's all shouldn't have brought it up. And now we're stuck here and we're gonna go down this path of like, Doom Enos. It's like, no, let your partner to react to it, and then give them a few days to digest it. And then even if jumping out of that canoe, saying that your spouse does absolutely nothing for your relationship, the reality is you were true to yourself and decided, I no longer want to go down this path that isn't working for me. I no longer want to keep paddling backwards and waiting for something to happen. So I'm going to take a risk here, and I'm going to do something different.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah. 100%. And the risk you're taking is for your own life. Right? And I really want to be very clear here, because maybe people are listening and like, Yeah, you told me to get separated, blah, blah, blah, like, and this is what a lot of people struggle with. Because in marriage, we have this very binary idea. Black and white. Yeah, either you're all in or it's over. And that is absolutely not what marriage is about. It's so complex. You know, Kate, and I laugh, like, there's sometimes like, we're brutally honest, right? I'm even brutally honest, my clients, there's times kids have been together 21 years, right? There's time when Kate is madly in love with me, I am madly in love with her, we can't keep our hands off each other. There's time when Kate Kate wants to wring my neck. Right? And that like happens. Sometimes. I mean, I would say often, hopefully not often,

Kate MacDougall
I mean, used to be every hour, now it's down to every day.

Eric MacDougall
But what I'm saying is like, there's times when you know, we're in such close proximity. Our lives do have a certain amount of dependency on each other, right, we count on each other. And to be in a relationship with someone means that you're not always gonna get what you want from them. And that sucks sometimes, right? There's some times when Kate wants something from me, and I'm like, I'm not giving that to you. Because I'm gonna prioritize me right now. Doesn't mean I'm never gonna give it to you, doesn't mean I'm not open to giving it to you. It means right now, it's a clear No, and vice versa, right? And then Kate has to kind of sit with that, or I have to sit with that. And I'm not like butthurt. And you need to do better. And if you don't know, it's not like that. The two choice dilemma was for me to ask for what I want. And so those are my options. Don't ask for what I want, or ask for what I want. And that's the first choice dilemma. After I do that, if Kate refuses, maybe I give a bit of time, I asked differently later, I asked again, later, whatever, then you might get to a point where now your choice dilemma is, hey, I'm either going to press this issue, and we're going to have a serious conversation about our needs in this marriage. Or I'm just going to stay like this. And the two choice dilemma builds now there's things that we're never going to agree on all the time raising kids, how we spend money, how much we have sat how often we have sex, like because we're tutoring people, we're going to be different on those scenarios, right?

Kate MacDougall
And those scenarios can look different in whatever life, you know, life season you're in, and I am I'm in exactly. So depending on what's going on, I might have a different reaction. So it doesn't mean like just because I said no, now, it doesn't mean that I'm gonna say no forever. So if you are facing a two choice dilemma, if this is something that you're currently living with

Eric MacDougall
feeling stuck, right, if you're like feeling totally stuck, just trust

Kate MacDougall
that stopping that backwards paddle will feel so much more freeing. Whichever choice you make, whether it's going down that waterfall, or jumping out of the boat and trying to swim. Either way, not paddling backwards, will make you feel empowered. And the more you choose to go down a path, whichever one you choose, the more you do it, the more it'll feel comfortable. And those choices won't be as hard. You won't have to sit there paddling backwards, looking at that waterfall, looking at the short look in the waterfall, like you will just trust yourself that no matter what decision I make, I will figure this out. Yeah, that in the end, if I go down this waterfall, and it's a 7000 foot drop, and my canoe breaks, and I hit my head on a rock, whatever, like, I will get through this, and I will figure this out. And yeah, maybe it might not be the best choice to go down that waterfall. Maybe I messed up, maybe that wasn't the right choice. Maybe if you change from your comfortable corporate job to starting your own business. Yeah, it might suck at first and it might really hurt and your finances might be impacted or whatever, then it might impact your marriage. And there might be all kinds of things in the background. But you will not know. Right? What was it that you said you won't know? Until you do it? Right? So take that risk, take that leap. And whatever it is, you choose. Just trust in yourself and trust that whatever outcome happens, I can figure this out. Yeah,

Eric MacDougall
and I'm gonna give like one last little caveat here. Not a caveat, but like really encouragement actually, to be honest, because I've been working with men for almost three years now. And one of the things that I recognize is that men typically come to me like they feel really stuck. And they've been essentially in this place where they've kind of avoided taking action because they're unsure of what action to take, and they don't want to rock the boat. And I get that, right, I still sometimes experienced that of like, I have to decide, is this worth kind of fighting for? Or do I wait a little bit longer. That's something we always face. But one thing I recognize, and that this happens, like time and time and time again, is when the men learn these skills to like lead and to face or to choice dilemmas and to reduce their anxieties and to step into their power and choose love and choose commitment and choose duty. No matter what happens, because they're progressing. They feel happier and more empowered and more fulfilled, than when we first got in. So I have men in the group right now, they are facing harder things than they faced when they first came to me. Like they're facing challenges in their life now, that are much scarier for people. If you were to say, like, Hey, would you rather do this or do what you're facing? Now, a lot of people on the outside would be like, Oh, my God, that's crazy. Like, I would rather just stay where you were at instead of taking all these risks, but they are consistently like rating, they are consistently rating themselves in the green. Like, they're saying, like, yes, it's hard. It's some of the most incredibly hard things that I've done. But I have never been more fulfilled, I have never been more in line, I have never felt more powerful. And that's what we're doing here. And that's a life worth living, right. Because if you're stuck in a situation that's going to eat away at you, and one of the biggest, like this is all over the place, right? You can read all about this, but like one of the biggest regrets that people have is that they should have taken more risks in their life, they should have traveled on those trips, they should have chosen that love, they should have bid for connection in their marriage, whatever it is. And that's a big part of what we are encouraging you to do here is instead of just saying, I'm going to avoid any hard situation and kind of try to stay in my comfort zone as much as possible and reduce all risk. Trust yourself. Trust yourself, you know, make a choice. Make a decision for yourself or a place of love from a place of kindness. Be bold, because you only have one life to live. And it's up to you to live it because no one else is going to live it for you.