In this episode, Kate & Eric dive deep in to the contrast between spontaneous and responsive sexual desire and its impact on relationships.

Topics:
➡️ Spontaneous vs. responsive desire
➡️ The effect of initiation on intimacy
➡️ Adapting to your partner's desire type

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TRANSCRIPT:

Eric MacDougall
So today, our topic, I think, has been really relevant in a lot of the circles I've been talking to men with, it's probably one of the most common complaints I get from men. But I don't think it's exclusive to men. I think there's a lot of women in the world as well and complain about this. But essentially, kind of what we're talking about here, is this, this challenge, that your relationship is good, right? If a good marriage, it's fun, and a good play. Yeah. You feel connected, you love each other. When you do have sex, it feels good. It feels nice. But your partner never initiates. You're always the one doing this end initiation won't won't. Yeah. And so I don't wanna go too deep into, like, what this can lead to and why this is the case and why it hangs on us and stuff like that. Yeah. And so you know, one of the things that we want to say is, obviously, we enjoy when our partner initiates, because it validates that we are desirable, and that's really important in a relationship is we want to feel desired by our partner, especially when we feel insecure about ourselves, etc. So, again, not to go too deep into that, but it does feel good when your partner initiates, right? It's a sense of a sense of wanting this. Yeah. But today, I really want to talk about this idea of, you know, the two types of desire and kind of dive deeper into it to understand your partner, you know, might not be initiating because they're like, intentionally not doing it, or because they're afraid of it, it's probably more because the type of desire that they have is different than yours.

Kate MacDougall
Yeah. And there are 1,000,002 reasons why your partner may not be initiating could be from something as simple as you know, need you needing to brush your teeth a little more often, to something a little more complex as in like they have some trauma around sex. That is definitely not what we're talking about today. But yeah, there is quite a difference in you know, styles and the way people perceive initiating.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah. And so the reality is, is that the you know, your partner because in this happens in our relationship, right, I'll be real. Typically, I'm the one that initiates more often, you definitely initiate a times, but it's probably a little more covert.

Kate MacDougall
It's very covert. And we've kind of got this joke like if Kate wears matching underwear, she's initiating, Kate showered and, or k goes to bed without, you know, her flannel pajamas. That's initiating.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah, if Kate wears her lose that are like four sizes too small and just tighten absolutely everything up, boom, that's initiation. No,

Kate MacDougall
that's not initiation. I go teach with those. It's definitely not initiation. I wear those to yoga, I wear those to teach.

Eric MacDougall
I cannot get anything done around the house. And I know I don't understand how that's even getting into this issue. So but we do want to say here, well, I'm just carefully wearing those autoplays.

Kate MacDougall
Those are not lunch. It's your body you do.

Eric MacDougall
But what I will say here is that I want to talk about these two different types of desire. Because oftentimes, when we think about, you know, desiring and other and kind of initiating sex and getting into this energy of wanting to have sex, oftentimes, we think about what we call spontaneous desire, which is a thought pops into your head, and then your body responds and gets all excited. And they're like, ooh, like, I want to have sex, right? So if you think about it, it starts from an activation in your brain, and then it goes to your body. Not all men, but a lot of men are like this. And because sex has been such a something that men have created a narrative around for so long, right? Because, you know, I don't want to go into it all. But you know, men have been

Kate MacDougall
leading societies for whatever the history of sex it's common. Exactly. Yeah.

Eric MacDougall
Men kind of right. All the writers were men forever. They decided everything. Exactly. So the narrative was often from a male's perspective, right? There's a reason why we think intercourse is the way that everybody has pleasure, but no, it's not. Right. That's very male point of view. And so you think, you know, if you're one of these people who like, Well, I think about sex, and then I want it and then I go and initiate. If you think that's the way that everybody gets turned on, well, then it would make sense that you get disappointed when your wife does not initiate or when your husband is under shade. Because you're thinking, well, they obviously think about sex all the time, and obviously comes up for them. And they obviously get the urge a lot, but then they just don't do anything with it. And they don't come to me. So clearly, it means something about me. Yeah.

Kate MacDougall
And to be honest, like, if I'm thinking about sex, it's more like, oh, shoot, we haven't had sex in a while. That does not make me think, well, I should probably go next, because I just thought about thanks. Like, no, not happening. That's not what I don't think about I don't even think about sex. Yeah. And

Eric MacDougall
so this is, this is really important. You're saying this, because this idea of spontaneous desire, like I said, it's thoughts happen in your brain that essentially arouse your body. Okay, so that's kind of the system starts in your head, you think exciting things. And then your body responds. You know, 50% of the people in the world are like this. Right? Men, women, that's kind of how they settle women, some men. Yeah. And so that is spontaneous. Now, there's other people in the world, their desire works differently, which is they have what's called responsive desire. And to them, it's the opposite happens, which they experience something in their body, and then it sends a signal to their mind to want more of that. Yeah. Right. And so this is kind of the way that I explain it, because I was excited with food, and I love food. So anyways, so some people, when you know, if you were to if you were to just think about a piece of chocolate, then your mouth would start to water. And you would want a piece of chocolate. Right? Some people were like that. So it's like, you know, you think about eating something for me, like I you know, I love hamburgers or whatever, kind of like Jughead from archery. So I just like love eating hamburgers. So essentially, when I think about a hamburger, I'm like, Oh my God, I want a hamburger, I'm gonna go get a hamburger. Right. So again, that's spontaneous. I think about something. My body responds because my mouth waters a saliva starts. And then I go and take action. Some people, they don't think about hamburgers or food ever. They're not like, I want a hamburger. But hamburgers pop into their head, they don't really think about anything. It's just like, Okay, that's a hamburger. And then they don't like their body doesn't respond. But those people, what often happens is they will, you know, let's say to take a piece of chocolate, they will take a piece of chocolate, they will eat it. And then their brain will say you want more of this, like this is delicious. So you need to have more of that. Right? And so this is like the person who's like, you know, eating a piece cake. And then they didn't really know how many times people are like this. Like, I didn't even realize I was hungry. And then I ate that whole dessert. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. Because your body was responding. And then your body was like, This is so good. Give me more of that. And then your brains like, okay, I guess we'll just keep doing this. Yeah, right. And so that is the difference there. And that happens in our sex lives.

Kate MacDougall
Right. And just to clarify, just because you're a spontaneous person who likes food does not mean you're a spontaneous person who likes sex. I'm very spontaneous when it comes to food. I think hamburger, I want to eat a hamburger. I think sex actually, I never think sex. I don't want tech. Like it's that they don't correlate. It's not like 100% brain doesn't work the same for all the things. It's just an example. Yeah,

Eric MacDougall
exactly. So it's just an example, to understand how your brain works in response to your body, or how some people they need their body to be stimulated, in order for the brain to respond. And so if you have a partner who enjoys sex, right, they like to have something wrong with tax, you have conversations about tax, and you're like, Hey, do you like it? Yeah, I love it. It's so great. Like, and they're being genuine, they actually love having sex with you. And it's pleasurable for them. But they're never initiating. It's most likely well, either, because there's barriers in the way and they have brakes, but it's most likely because they are a responsive desire partner, which means their body needs to experience something for them to desire it. And so they need to experience pleasure in their body for their brain to say, oh, there it is. That's what we want.

Kate MacDougall
Yeah, and I'll speak for myself because Because being responsive, desire responsive, when did you say responsive desire? Yeah. Responsive desire partner, is, if, you know, I think about it, and I'm like, oh, it's been a little while since I've initiated it. It's been a few days or weeks or whatever, that we haven't had sex. So, you know, it would be nice to connect with Eric and that way, I really have to get out of my head and into my body, therefore, I will, you know, really get all the senses involved. Like I'll take a shower, I'll have some candles lit like I really have to like, get in the mood to think about okay, this may or may not happen, but I need to at least start thinking about it and start just like getting my mind and body ready to possibly have sex. And so as I'm you know, showering As I'm, you know, getting ready for, you know, possibly this initiation happening, even then I'm not thinking about sex, though even then it's not like all of a sudden I'm like, Ah, there's a sex. Oh, now I want it. It's, sometimes I'll even go into the moment and still be not thinking about sex neutral, neutral about it. Yeah. But then, you know, we'll start kissing and things will start happening. And then my body starts to respond. And then my mind goes to like, oh, actually, you're really going to enjoy this. So keep going. Yeah. But it takes, I would have to say, it takes a lot of energy for me to get there. So what I've had to do for myself is just keep reminding myself, like, take the pressure off, because there's a lot of pressure, especially as a responsive desire person, there's a lot of pressure societies kind of made up the story that you have to initiate, if you love your partner, you have to initiate if you you know, if you fear a good wife, you have to have sex with your husband. And so what happens is, for a long time, I used to, you know, try to force myself to, you know, like, I would watch porn just to like, try to like, feel something feel like maybe if I watched sex, then I don't want it. And that didn't work. And then I thought, Okay, well, I'm broken. I obviously have no Lizardo libido, however, you pronounced that. Like I said, that's something I hear so many women talk about like, oh, I have I just have no libido. I just have no liberty. With me. There's something wrong with me, I my hormones, Baba like, yes, yes, there might be something off balance there was it might be something out of balance. But there is nothing wrong with you. Just because you don't think about sex does not mean there is something wrong with you. Society has made us believe that this is something we need to think about. Often it's not. What is wrong is when you're having sex and it's painful, that's there's something wrong there. That means you need to go seek medical attention. But otherwise, the way you get to having sex, there's no right or wrong way to get there. There's also nothing wrong with you often thinking about sex and getting very aroused and very stimulated by thinking about sex and or just seeing a very beautiful person and then feeling like who, like there's nothing wrong with that. There's, I think we've just put so much pressure on ourselves when it comes to initiating that we forgot really, what sex is about. And it's about a man and a woman, or two men, two women, let's not get into the details. But in this case, me and Eric, people to consenting people getting together and connecting in a very deep, intimate, vulnerable way. Yeah, yeah. And so if you can, for me as a responsive desire person, I need to get all of those thoughts of what I'm supposed to feel and how I'm supposed to feel and how I'm supposed to show up to the bedroom. When it's time to have sex. I need to really move remove that and just allow myself to just be in the moment. So really what I'm doing when I'm taking a shower, when I'm I've got the candles lit, I've got whatever, like the music like, I'm not trying to get horny. I'm not doing it to like, hopefully like, Oh, now I'll feel it like, I'm doing it to really calm myself, to de stress to clear my mind to get my day away from me to stop thinking about the kids stop thinking about my students stop thinking, thinking about my friends and family and all the things going on in my head. All of my to do list. I leave it there. And then I can come to the moment. De stressed comfortable chill. And then I feel like whew, okay, whatever comes up at this point, I am more open to than I would be if I just kind of like, went to bed and didn't get mentally ready for it. Yeah,

Eric MacDougall
yeah. And I absolutely love that. And I think, you know, I was thinking for the quote, I think it's Esther Perel setup, but like sex, sex is not something we do. It's a place we go. And it is pretty much what you're describing, right? You are not doing all this stuff to like, get yourself arousing, be ready, you're essentially removing a lot of the barriers to connect to your body to be in a space where you can open yourself up to connection, and even the way that we often begin our engagement with connecting sexually. Number one is, there's no expectation that this is going to go to the yet, right. That's something that we removed a long time ago. So if we're both in bed, and it's like, Hey, you want to lay together naked? It's not like oh, this is going to lead to Eric wanting to have sex and I'm going to have to say yes, I can't say no, because I feel bad. That's all No, like, if we decide to lay naked in bed together and start get aroused and say, Hey, you want to make out? Sometimes you'll just be like, Hey, I'd love to make out I just want you to know that's kind of the extent for me like I'm not willing to go any further than just making out then it's like awesome. Like, I love playing in that space. You know what I mean?

Kate MacDougall
Yeah. And then what ends up happening most of the time is, I thought that's kind of as far as I wanted to go. But now I'm feeling it in my body. And I kind of want to go further. Yeah. So

Eric MacDougall
and then in that moment, often it's up to you. Right? Because I want to honor the boundary. Yeah. So that often now it's up to you to say, Hey, I'm gonna take this. Yeah. And it's like, okay. Yeah.

Kate MacDougall
And then that's, that's where I started initiating. So when you start to think like, Oh, my partner never initiates. Well, maybe they're going a little further than they had first set. That's initiation. Yeah,

Eric MacDougall
maybe they need your help. Right. I think that's kind of what I what we want to talk about in this episode is, is really like once you're able to understand your partner. So because I understand Kate's responsive desire, there's ways that I engage with her. Throughout the day, there's ways like I can bring pleasure to your life throughout the day through touch through connection, instead of just thinking, okay, yeah, I'm just gonna talk about sex all day. And then later on, she'll get in the mood. Yeah, like, that doesn't work for you, you know what I mean? And for a long time, that's what I thought it was. It's like all we're having conversations about sex. We're joking around about sex is so great when I was sex tonight. And the news was like, Well, nothing's happening. But I realized, like, oh, like Kate actually needs to experience something in her body, right. And in order to be able to do that, she needs to remove all the barriers, right? And then she needs to be able to open her body up to experiencing that. And by knowing that, then we can work together to make sure we have sexual experience that feels less burdensome and fulfilling for both of us.

Kate MacDougall
Right? So to like, answer the question from the beginning of the episode, like, why is my partner not initiating? Well, your partner's not initiating, not because they don't want to have sex? Probably because they're just, they don't think about sex, they don't think about initiating. So what I would do if you know your partner is more responsive, is talk to them about it. You know, if I asked them, you know, how, you know, if you do ever think about sex during the day, and get really aroused, and your partner might be like, I never think about sex, then that's probably your first hint that they're responsive partner. And so at that point, you could be like, well, what are some of the barriers getting in the way of you wanting to have sex when I initiate what what is something that might stop you from wanting to have sex and understanding their breaks, and trying to understand more what their accelerators are what, what gets them excited, and then playing on that, you know, when we have a whole episode on brakes and accelerators, so we're not even gonna get into that, but just trying to understand that, but I think it's very important for you to understand what kind of desire your partner has, and respecting that, and honoring that, and, and trying to, you know, help them accept that, because I think that was the first step for me as a responsive desire partner was to accept it to say, It's okay that I'm like this, it's okay that I don't initiate straight up and go up to Eric. And I'm like, Oh, hey, honey. Like, I think it's, for me, I think it took time to accept that because society has all these expectation puts all these expectations on you. And this is how you need to show up. And if you desire your partner, you have to tell them, it's like, Man, I desire Eric, I definitely do. But I don't think about it. It's just that happens. So when things start happening, then I'm like, right? Yes, I want this. But I don't sit there during the day thinking about it. And it's not because I don't desire you. It's not because I don't think you're good looking. And this is something that you had to get to know to. Yeah,

Eric MacDougall
absolutely. And so I love that I think, you know, just trying to understand, is it you know, the way your desire works? Is it more you think about it, and then your body responds? Or is it that you have to experience it in your body, and that sends a signal to your brain and be like, Okay, let's do it. Right. And so once you can understand how you are how your partner is, then you can kind of work together to play in that realm. In order to experience more sexual connection. You know, whether it's, you know, something that leads to intercourse or not, right, sometimes it's just, hey, let's make out and enjoy this so your body can respond to it. And you can learn to love this, and then you can work your way up from there.